SpankySmith Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 I've read several posts here regarding Stove Black. I really like the finish (though rubber gloves are mandatory, it's messy!). However the posts I've read all refer to using it and then applying a clear coat. I have some pieces I'd like to use it on but I can't clear coat them afterwards - they're key chains and my experiments with various clear coats (and paints) is they begin to chip away pretty readily, even after plenty of curing time. They can't handle getting banged around. So I'd like to use the stove black but am concerned about it transferring to clothing, hands, etc. the documentation on it says it can be polished to a high gloss finish after 4 hours, which is true, but I also noticed the one I carry around as an experiment will still rub off a little black smudge if I rub my thumb against it. So, anyone have enough experience with stove black to know any secret to this? Is there some way to hard cure it or otherwise seal it without having to clear coat it? Or, on another hand, anyone know a clear coat that is rock hard enough it can put up with abuse from keys and such? Yes, I could use any regular beeswax or other finish, but the stove black polishes up so uniquely. Really like it. Any suggestions welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 By "stove black", are you referring to the high temp paint for stoves? Manifold paint is similar and a lot tougher though I believe it has to get hot for the final cure. I've never used stove black, stove paint or manifold paint on products that aren't in the fire like andirons. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankySmith Posted September 9, 2014 Author Share Posted September 9, 2014 Nope, there's stove paint and stove Polish, two different products. I'm talking about the polish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Nope, there's stove paint and stove Polish, two different products. I'm talking about the polish. Learn something every day. I've never polished a stove though we did put a new coat of paint on ours last winter while it was downchecked. I wonder if how it'd look polished. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironwolfforgeca Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 stove paint & polish need to be heat cured ! or they will transfer onto other stuff when I repaint the house wood stove I take it out of the house & fire it up other wise will stink out the house bad they also don't like outside weather like rain you will repaint next year again been there on BBQ I build -- HIGH Temp paint is another option stove black is just a high temp flat black paint more or less Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankySmith Posted September 9, 2014 Author Share Posted September 9, 2014 I can't recall who mentioned it here,but the Polish is readily available at my local lowes, it's distinct from a paint in that it's just a dark black polish. I haven't found anything online about heat "curing" it like the paint, other than mentions like Iron made about making sure you heat it outdoors or with windows open the first time after use. I emailed the manufacturer (Imperiel), but was hoping someone here had some experience using it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forger Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I used stove black years ago. Think of it as a wax with carbon black in it. It is for the old wood/coal cook stoves to keep them pretty looking. It is not real durable and will rub off. That's what I remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 The classic stove black grate and range polish over here is called Zeebrite and is in bright yellow and black tubes, made now by Reckkit and Coleman, or whoever they have corporated to. It is basically graphite in wax. We have another company here called Liberon who do a wide range of gilt repair waxes and they also do a graphite iron paste, which is possibly less transferable to fingers and pockets. I don't know if they are available on your side. Zeebrite is applied by brush or cloth and then burnished up. Which gives you the soft irony look; soot black in the hollows and the highlights reflective. Same as if you rubbed a pencil over a surface. I always thin it with white spirit (to the same consistency as my coffee) so that it flows on with a paint brush, takes for ever if you use it neat on anything larger than a key ring. Having said that I would not use it for something frequently handled or stored in the pocket for just the reasons you mentioned, it is designed for stoves! :) If you want the irony look why not just leave the scale on and wax it? Another finish which might be somewhere in between is shoe polish. The pigments in that do not seem quite so transferable as the graphite. And you would have a wider range of colour opportunities. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankySmith Posted September 9, 2014 Author Share Posted September 9, 2014 Hmmm... shoe polish! Now why didn't I think of that? I will look into it, you're right it typically hardens better and doesn't transfer. I actually did just apply standard wax to some of them, it looks okay, but as you noted the stove polish really gives a nice highlight to the piece. But I definitely don't want it coming off on people's clothing, it's hard enough for me to get it off my hands when I use it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Cannings used to make a 'self levelling' lacquer. That had a black pigment in it which migrated to the concave bits leaving the convex bits clear. It was used by the Birmingham brass stampers for costume jewellery and picture frame stampings and the like. It made the most of the modelling detail. I did try some on some fire tools, but thought they just looked dirty. My usual finish for fire tools ended up either pickled or shot blasted to get all the scale off, and then power wire brush burnished and finished with Renaissance wax. That Richard Quinnell always referred to it as my "dead fish" finish...somewhat unkindly I thought! I actually ended up doing the Saint Paul's Cathedral gates with it, only I added in a coat of ISO cyanate lacquer between the burnishing and the wax. That had not deteriorated after thirty odd years. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petere76 Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 if you are just churning out key rings, consider a batch system of say 20 units at a time. Forged the pieces to completion, a vinegar soak to liberate the scale, wire brush to white metal, heat and apply a mixture of linseed oil, bees wax and turpentine. I use this technique on all the small stuff that we produce in batches. Particularly, anything we make a lot of and have to store. This way you reduce the repetitive cleaning when pieces rust. In process work, whatever you are making, its one step at a time, each step fully completed and finished one time not several. The man hours are in the finish details, try to get it right the first time. Without buffing, the pieces store well in cans. At the point of sale you just buff them out with a cotton rag. Also, the pieces don't transfer the finish to the hands of those using them. Stove black, when handled, will certainly transfer. Good luck. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankySmith Posted September 9, 2014 Author Share Posted September 9, 2014 Actually Petere, that's almost exactly what I'm doing. I'm working toward a tiny local craft show in November, and each weekend I'm making a "batch" of something, 12 to 18 at a time. Trying to forge items that don't require too much extra finish work. I've been storing in airtight Lock-n-Lock containers! :D (I know, it's a girl thing.) I'm going to give the shoe polish a trial and try to find some Renaissance Wax, I've read good things about that stuff, just haven't tried it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I make my own renaissance wax up from microcrystalline and polythene wax...I have posted the recipe on here previously. It is 90% white spirit so you pay an awful premium for the retail packaging. I bough a sackful of each wax 20 years ago for the price of three tins of Picreator and I am about a quarter of the way through it even though every journeyman has left here with a kilo! Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Ah HAH! This is what I use Trewax for. The stuff is Carnuba, is very liquid and penetrating at just above 212f and hardens to extreme durability. Frankly if you apply it too thickly it'll chip. I have a couple old cotton socks in the can and just wipe the hot piece down. You can get most anything from brushed steel to black depending on what heat you apply it. I only use bees wax if someone WANTS beeswax. I'm just not fond of how tack it stays, even if mixed with paraffin but that's my taste. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Special Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Hmm, most of the shoe polishes are caranuba, may have to dig my pre-suede boots stash out. I dunno how it would apply for metal, but I know on leather, we got better results from lincoln wax than kiwi by far, and there wasn't as much of a benzene stink to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankySmith Posted September 10, 2014 Author Share Posted September 10, 2014 I tried the shoe polish, it does add a definite blackness to the metal, but at least on the one piece I was trying it on I couldn't get a very good gloss on it. However, on the upside, once dried it definitely did NOT transfer to hands or clothes. I applied it cold, let it dry and then buffed, I'm going to experiment again with applying it to warm metal, letting it dry and then buff, see if maybe I can get a better gloss that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) I tried the shoe polish, it does add a definite blackness to the metal, but at least on the one piece I was trying it on I couldn't get a very good gloss on it. However, on the upside, once dried it definitely did NOT transfer to hands or clothes. I applied it cold, let it dry and then buffed, I'm going to experiment again with applying it to warm metal, letting it dry and then buff, see if maybe I can get a better gloss that way. I am surprised it did not come up glossy, my shoes always do! How glossy was the surface you tried it on? You might find you can use the shoe polish for colour and seal it with Renaissance wax… that is clear enough that they use it to protect oil paintings. I found that the burnished graphite finishes, whether grate black polish or the burnished graphite paint, could not be over coated with wax or lacquer, immediately you lost the burnished highlights and it just became dull black. The shoe polish pigments did not seem to change as much so you might get them a bit more resilient and glossy with a clear (renaissance) wax coating. Did you try any other colours? Blue and red work really well, green very much depends on the object. You might need to get the steel clean before you start, ping all the scale off with a gas torch, shot blaster or pickle and wire brush to get the full effect of the polish. Alan Edited September 10, 2014 by Alan Evans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Yet another finish you could try would be to use a brass brush, a suede hand brush or a rotary brass brush in a drill or angle grinder, which as you burnish a piece of steel with one it deposits a golden tinge, then you can wax that. It works even better if you warm the metal first. I used to do it on the high points of the form to increase the contrast…it is then a real dead fish finish! Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankySmith Posted September 10, 2014 Author Share Posted September 10, 2014 Alan I love that finish and use it quite a bit on pieces, particularly on some of the Fredericks Crosses that I make. People seem to really like it too, especially when I convince them that no, it's NOT gold, it just looks like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Terriffic! Not just that you know the finish….but you are the first person on here that I have seen acknowledging Christoph for his lovely cross design. I saw him make one at Saint Louis twenty years ago. Most people seem quite comfortable referring to the "split cross" they had made of any particular size with no credit to the artist creator…Friedrichs is the spelling by the by! Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankySmith Posted September 10, 2014 Author Share Posted September 10, 2014 Then this will make you extra happy: in preparation for my little craft show booth in November I've prepared a page I will laminate and put on the table with the crosses, a brief word on how they are made and citing the two "traditional" stories I could locate about the origin of the design, including Christoph! (The other is a more vague reference to ancient use of the design in Germany as grave markers) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toothygrin Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I found with some pieces you can get away with simply coating them in used oil, and then putting them in coal dust, setting them on fire and you get a simular result as stove black. This doesn't work that well on large surfaces( I tried it with a coal shovel I made) but after you have set it on fire and wiped it off it keeps a nice black color.I also found this doesn't make a mess when you touch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal lover Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 your best bet would be to use gun bluing or browning solution lt does not transfer the color at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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