teenylittlemetalguy Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 As I understand it forge welding leaf spring together for an ax is difficult. I have made axe heads before and the thought of all this wonderfully sized stock laying about in leaf springs makes me wish I could use it. I tried last autumn and had only a small section take a weld, it was mostly failure. I am hoping anyone that can do it would speak up and help me out. I am not new to forge welding, so this is not about that. I have welded mild and tool steels before. I have been very careful about keeping the weld area clean. I suspect the material is very susceptible to ANY oxides in the way at all. The thought did occur to me to cheat (I am not above it) by folding close, cleaning and TIG weld it all closed first, I have not tried it yet though it is next on my list to attempt, unless someone has some thing to add. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Budd Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I've never tried welding leaf springs (I prefer to use virgin steel), but I've read the same thing about it not sticking to itself. You could try slipping a shim of a different steel between the two pieces of spring, that way it should all weld up and if the extra piece is only thin then it should pretty much disappear (the carbon content should even out pretty quickly), or just forge the joint off centre. Or make the bowtie from mild and use the spring as the edge steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 You didn't state what alloy it is. As chrome content goes up, so can welding difficulty. 5160 can be a pain, but it can be done, watch the color of the surface for any oxides forming. What did you use for flux? you didnt say and different alloys weld differently. Too many people assume they all work like mild steels. The beginners read about fluxless welding , and decide its cheaper to not buy any. Flux makes welding easier, but many like to make it harder on themselves by not using any, too much , or not use the correct one Fire come from coal? Is it clean or dirty coal, or maybe charcoal, coke, or corn cobs, maybe gas? you never said. Some make CO and CO2 , and that is good, others allow hydrogen to contaminate the steel. Not so good. There is more than air as a concern of running a rich or lean fire. But this should be the same for mild or tools steels in your forge, so not as important to cover in this post, but I am stating it here for others to think about.I mentioned various flux additions for various metals already in the knife chat so I see no need to repeat that again, but its hard to tell you any more, until you tell me more about what ya got going already. Good luck, I like Daves idea of the shim to make it easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 Dave, I like that shim idea! That will warrant some experimentation. Steve, I don't know the alloys of scrap leaf springs. I am fully aware of the differences and understand it is not optimal to try and use scrap. I am a hobbyist and not trying to go to market with this, just curious if anyone else has had any luck at this. I am using a properly adjusted gas forge, like I said I know how to forge weld. I am using iron mt. but prefer black magic when i can get it for flux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Olivo Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I have had really good luck using mild steel for bodes of tools and welding on leaf spring for the edge. I have found and been told that leaf spring often doesn't weld to itself but It loves to weld to mild steel. So just try to keep any leaf spring from itself with mild steel. Works for pattern weld that way or as bits welded in for the cutting edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 I have had really good luck using mild steel for bodes of tools and welding on leaf spring for the edge. I have found and been told that leaf spring often doesn't weld to itself but It loves to weld to mild steel. So just try to keep any leaf spring from itself with mild steel. Works for pattern weld that way or as bits welded in for the cutting edge. Thanks, that might be a more reasonable thing for me to do than my dream of all leaf spring heads. do you usually split and insert or wrap over the outside? I have seen both done, just curious which you are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K. Bryan Morgan Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I made an axe with a mild steel body and a leaf spring bit a couple of years ago and welding it up was pretty easy going. I didn't have any issues and it went rather smoothly. I did use lots of flux to keep the evil oxygen out. Jake P and I did it in a very crude and simple forge made from a steel desk drawer lined with kitty litter. Worked great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted February 15, 2014 Author Share Posted February 15, 2014 Yeah Bryan I have as well, fun isn't it? My real dream here was to forgo all the fiddling around and form an axe like a bow tie completely from leaf spring. Sounds like it may not be realistic with just forge welding though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 This is another one of the things that is best figured out in the shop...This is a wonderful site. but it for sure does not replace times at the forge and anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K. Bryan Morgan Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Yes it is lots of fun. And Rich is so right. Gotta do It and keep doing it and then do it some more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Olivo Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 I have done one sided on knives. I like the center weld and one side weld for axes. haven't really thought about a wrap around style. seen it just never really appealed to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Tristan: I'll be bringing the Patterson flux to the meeting at Jim's for everyone to try. Bring some of that spring and we'll give it a shot. On the other hand if we get a warmish weekend you could come out. Sean'll be out next Saturday temperature permitting. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Wallbanger Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Ive been wanting to try this too . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 Tristan: I'll be bringing the Patterson flux to the meeting at Jim's for everyone to try. Bring some of that spring and we'll give it a shot. On the other hand if we get a warmish weekend you could come out. Sean'll be out next Saturday temperature permitting. Frosty The Lucky. Sounds good. Man a warm weekend would be nice, the extra light each day is getting me revved up for spring. I tried again yesterday with plain borax and failed again. I am thinking I will try a dry weld using the TIG to seal it up before any heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 When you set up an area to be forge welded there is not room for any slag to escape...Every time I tried that it failed..I weld a handle to one end of a billet now and wire the rest ,,cutting wires as I weld a section...that is not the same as an axe i know..but hope you get the point. Fluxes: I seems to me over the years I have been through the full range of fluxes for welding mild and high carbon steel. The best i ever used was made by Cecil Swan. wonderful stuff and with it I got instantly better at forge welding mild steel..which is harder than HC. I spent long hours at the forge with a lot of forge welding in those hours...and after wot seemed like forever it just got easier..Gradually I stopped looking for a magic flux and went back to borax laundry soap..that is wot I use most of the time. However when i am welding up HC billet that i spent a lot of money on I add a small amount of boric acid to it...Think maybe it is a mental thing.but it works and I will likely continue. There is a newly mentioned flux on here...Think Brian Brazzeal spoke if it,,,Iron Mountain?..He says it allows two pieces to stick together at a lower heat than he has seen before...That sure seems like a step forward., not sure if it is the Patterson that Frosty mentioned. So , like hammer skills, i believe it is shop time over the anvil that is a key to forge welding. Teeny you said youi would try again tomorrow,,,Hope it goes well for you. I would suggest you get a stack of the kind of steel you want to weld and try it a dozen times or more. And repeat that every chance you get. When you get together as a group I bet you will move forward a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 Rich, thanks for the advice , for sure I can use more practice, but I am fairly successful on both mild and HC. I like iron mountain flux but my favorite hands down is black magic. Simply incredible stuff, even though I was wowed by iron mountain. My question here is concerning forge welding leaf spring. I have heard it can be done, but have not seen it done and cannot seem to do it myself. I am guessing the chrome content is high and interferes. Leaf spring is a different beast. I decided this morning to try a dry weld using a TIG welder to seal the air out of the weld area. It works fantastic! I will have limited shop time this week, but hope to have a axe built soon using this method. Below is my test coupons. TIG weld showing on the back and a cleaned up cross section to show the excellent results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcc Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I've never used springs, but try the big finish mower(I'm not talking about bushhog) blades that are under tractor decks. Do a quench test to see if they harden first though. I love using these because they weld nicely at a good soaked yellow heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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