SoCal Dave Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 For hardfacing rods, what info/data am I looking for when comparing the rods and their ability to withstand abrasion? I have been using Stoody 35, but Stoody XHC was recommended. So, for strictly, abrasion resistance to sand, what am I looking at to find the best rod for this purpose? When I read the characteristics of a rod, many say, "abrasion resistance is excellent, but is there data that I can quantify? Is there numbers that I can actually compare for abrasion resistance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Dave a thought: take one of the pins to a local welding supplier..tell and show him or her wot you need..they may have it right there,,buy a sample lot and field test it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Who do you like, Hobart, Lincoln, Miller, Esob? Have you contacted them directly and ask for their recommendations? What did they suggest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Dave Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 I have not contacted any welding people like the ones listed above. I did talk to my local welding school and the Airgas local welding store. And, you guys of course. I will contact Lincoln, Miller, and Stoody and see what they have to offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Lincoln and Stoody may be able to make some suggestions. I know Lincoln has guys whose job is specifically to help answer questions on which product is best for what applications. Getting a hold of them might not be the easiest thing though. You may need to get that number from your welding supplier. I believe Stoody and other manufacturers also have tech support like that. Miller probably won't be of much help since they don't manufacture electrodes, only equipment. They could probably tell you what machine might be best to apply it in a production setting, but that's about it. Here's the link to Lincolns Hardfacing PDF. http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/US/EN/literature/C7710.pdf "Abrasion resistance" means very little unless you qualify it. There's all sorts of different rods available depending on the type of abrasion that is going on. A rod for metal to metal wear isn't the same as one for metal to stone or metal to dirt. Also how the rod is applied can make a difference. Many metal to earth rods, you form a cross hatch or dot pattern to the weld and the pattern helps to hold dirt trapped against the surface you want to protect. That way the dirt actually wears against itself and only the weld beads are exposed to the action of the dirt. On other wear surfaces though you might fully cover the material. So it's important to not only have the correct rods, but also know how the best way to apply it in your application. Cross hatching really won't work on small pins for example, even if the right rod is used. Also you want to check on the way the facing material is applied, stick vs wire vs spray with an OA type specialty torch, and what size quantity is available. A 40lb spool of wire is probably useless to you, but a guy refacing a dozer might go thru the whole spool. Also some wires need a pretty hefty machine to run them since you might be trying to push .045 or larger wire. They really don't expect "hobbyists" to be running hard facing wire typically. Here's a PDF from Stoody listing agricultural implements. http://victortechnologies.com/IM_Uploads/DocLib_6738_Stoody%20The%20Rebuilding%20and%20Hardfacing_%288201%29_July2007.pdf A few other Stoody PDF's on hardfacing http://victortechnologies.com/IM_Uploads/DocLib_7465_Stoody%20Catalog_%282102A%29_Oct2012.pdf http://victortechnologies.com/IM_Uploads/DocLib_6321_Stoody_50Hardfacing%20Tips%20Brochure%20%289220%29_May2012.pdf http://www.stoodyind.com/Catalogs/FISC/05catpg356.pdf http://www.stoodyind.com/Catalogs/FISC/05catpg357.pdf http://www.stoodyind.com/Catalogs/FISC/05catpg358.pdf http://www.stoodyind.com/Catalogs/FISC/05catpg359.pdf http://www.stoodyind.com/Catalogs/FISC/05catpg360.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Dave Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 I got this back from Victor/Stoody about hardfacing: To go to the next level of abrasion resistant hardfacing one would have to go to Tungsten carbide (1 layer , flat position, and about 3 times the cost ). I have no experience with the Lincoln hardfacing rods so I can't speak to their abrasion resistance, but I will contact them to see what they offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Dave: You're making an intuitive mistake in thinking the harder the rod the longer it'll last. This isn't how the stuff works, a lot depends on what it's being used on. High tungsten facing is typically used for metal on metal contact points where one contact is brief while the other is constant. Tool joints on drill strings being the application I'm most familiar with. A string of drill joints, 27' each when I was working the oil patch, Prudhoe Bay. Each joint Pin & box or male and female is larger in diameter than the rest of the stick. This puts the tool joint in contact with the inside of the well casing constantly but the inside of the casing is only being rubbed on for maybe 30 seconds to maybe a minute. We used to face tool joints with tungsten carbide grit in a hard facing wire matrix. When hard facing drill auger, bits, etc. the high rockwell facing rods didn't last long at all, one or two holes. The lower rockwell wire/rods tended to last a couple years before needing reworked. The tines you want to hard face will flex so a really hard rod will tend to spall under flexion. Being as you're using it in gravel even wear resistant flexible rod may not do it but I believe it'll last a lot longer. Even a little flex will spall the really hard facing. ON another tack if it's always being used in loose gravel you might try using a high molecular weight plastic sheathing. How's THAT for counter intuitive? In the real world the belly blade sanders used for plowing snow and sanding used to have steel bladed spinners. Spinners are the disks with paddles on them that throw the sand behind the truck. The guys in the heavy duty shop used to order a few hundred spinners as normal preseason prep. Then one of the guys tried putting heavy duty poly propylene blades on the spinners and darned if his experimental first try didn't last almost two seasons. Plastic spinners are now industry standard, he should've patented the idea but no. . . <sigh> Regardless, there may be nothing you can realistically do, these things may just be high wear items. Heck, it might be cheaper to have them replace the granite gravel with limestone gravel. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Dave Posted January 18, 2014 Author Share Posted January 18, 2014 Thanks Frost for the info. The arenas are just DG and Sand. No impact from rocks. I was just hoping that there was a better mouse trap out there. Of, course, I wanted the best AC hardfacing rod for abrasion resistance and not pay very much. I was just surprised at how fast the hardfacing wore off. The number of times we use the arena rake works out to average one arena per day, seven days a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbillysmith Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Most of the time it's about preference, BUT, the proof is in the product. Many different manufacturers make loads of quality equipment and consumables but Lincoln Electric has and owns affiliate companies who specialize in this type of application. Do the research and call the people who work with this stuff everyday. The welding suppliers like Airgas, Airco, Linde, OEMeyer, Aga, etc. just reference booklets distributed by the manufacturer themselves. For surfacing questions, contact some of the following; Weartech International Techalloy Metrode (^^owned by Lincoln Electric^^) Crown Alloys For what you are trying to accomplish, grading through sand and all, you'll want to be looking at abrasion resistance more than impact and the way you measure that is with a hardness scale. Brinnell and Rockwell are the most commonly used scales with the Rockwell C scale typically coming out on top. If you're just looking for something that is just stupid hard that will resist wear the most, look into a carbide coating like Royal 240 by Crown alloys. -Hillbilly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Dave it seems like you are going round and round the proverbial mulberry bush.Something I do to earn a few extra bucks is build arenas and lunge rings, I supply a gratis rake with them. It's a rake made of rebar with a set of tubes at the back these are fitted with a bolt to hold rebar spikes(tines)that just get slid down when they wear. They are cheap and easy to replace but we only have our sand 60mm deep so it's no biggie. You might save yourself a whole heap of hassle by just changing your system .Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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