Ancientsword Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I know I have posted a couple times about anvils here, but I feel like not having something decent to work on is holding me back a bit. I hope you guys don't mind, but it seems like this is the best place I have found for info. I stopped at the scrapyard again and came home with a chunk of unknown steel that is about 19"x9"x3" and 125 lbs. I was whacking all the big chunks I was looking through at the scrapyard and this one seemed to have the most rebound and ring to it. There was a lot of A36 and some various tool steels in that area and I really have no idea what it is. The known tool steel in there costs more, but it wasn't marked so I don't know what it is, but a hunk of metal. I previously picked up a couple chunks of 4140 that are 10"x3"x2.5" and about 15 lbs a piece, so I was wondering if I should weld a couple of the 4140 chunks to the top of my new piece or just use it as is? I am ready to hear that I will not get full face contact, but the pieces are only 3" wide. It seems to me that welds all around on a piece that narrow would be sufficient. Am I wrong? I would preheat everything to 400 F before welded and I was thinking of just using 7018 since I have it on hand. I could also add some feet to it, which would add additional mass. I am thinking it should end up in the 175 lbs range the way I envision it. I was debating on adding a small horn of some sort as well, I have a couple small A36 plates laying around that I could use. Is it worth the work or am I wasting my time? Now on to a second question. I have a couple of the above mentioned 4140 chunks that I wanted to make a post anvil out of. I was obviously going to turn one on end and plant it in a cement bucket or pipe, but I was wondering if it would be worth welding a second one to the base, for added mass? As an alternative, I have a 4ft section of light rail. Should I cut a section of it and weld the 4140 brick to it (all running vertically)? I would just use that rail as a post anvil, but I like the idea of a 3"x2.5" target vs just the light rail width. Where would I get the most for my effort? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Olivo Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/975709-block-anvil-inspired-by-Brian-Brazeal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anachronist58 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Hello Ancientsword, I am a bit confused as to why you are starting a new thread on the same subject 30 minutes later. Seems like you were getting some pretty good advice from some very knowledgeable people. Not knowing your experience or metalworking background can make it a challenge to give good focused advice. What tools do you have? #1) I have to ask, though, what do you find inadequate about a piece of steel that is "19"x9"x3" and 125 lbs"? A lot of people would give quite a bit for such a mass of metal. Has it no smooth surfaces? Like several suggested, why not use as is? What is your idea of "something decent"? I will bet you many of these guys/gals on this forum started out - and got the job done - on whatever they could get a hold of: a rock, for Pete's Sake, a wood splitting wedge stuck in a stump, etc. C-clamp or temp-weld just about anything to that big hunk - there's your first horn. #2) Good to see you are being bold and experimenting with your "4140". Hard to tell what condition you have when you get it from a scrap yard. I have 4140 scrap lying around here that is substantially more "reboundy" and tougher than my Swedish Soderfors anvil! And get rid of that plastic quenching bucket! #3) You say you have a "4ft section of light rail". Sounds like there's nothing to hold you back! I'll bet there are lots of people getting the job done - drive it into ground and get to forging. Question is, what is "light rail"? I have 20#, 60#, 90#, and 111# (that's pounds per linear yard). See page 44 of the Thread: "Show me your anvil". See also the Thread: "Anvil Shaped Objects". Only something with a classic anvil shape, but is Useless, is an "ASO". Want a nice stake anvil? go to the junk yard and pull a couple of truck axles - viola. As always, I count on the good people of this forum to correct me if I give poor advice. You should count yourself fortunate, Ancient, to have fallen in with this crowd, I amongst the least of them. Search the Forum, as many of your questions have been answered in posts past. Robert Taylor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anachronist58 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Mr Olivo, Great example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 what are you intending to make, large things, small things the working part of an anvil is mostly about the same area as your hammer face depending on the type and weight of the rail you have, make a base for it and cut it off at a suitable height, for heavy work you may want it low but for light work you may want it high 125 lb is a good weight to start mostly through history anvils did not have horns but if you look out for a worn out tooth from an excavator bucket you will have something useful you can weld on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancientsword Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Hello Ancientsword, I am a bit confused as to why you are starting a new thread on the same subject 30 minutes later. Seems like you were getting some pretty good advice from some very knowledgeable people. Not knowing your experience or metalworking background can make it a challenge to give good focused advice. What tools do you have? #1) I have to ask, though, what do you find inadequate about a piece of steel that is "19"x9"x3" and 125 lbs"? A lot of people would give quite a bit for such a mass of metal. Has it no smooth surfaces? Like several suggested, why not use as is? What is your idea of "something decent"? I will bet you many of these guys/gals on this forum started out - and got the job done - on whatever they could get a hold of: a rock, for Pete's Sake, a wood splitting wedge stuck in a stump, etc. C-clamp or temp-weld just about anything to that big hunk - there's your first horn. Well, all I had before the last couple of days, was a Harbor Freight 55 lbs ASO. It was frustrating me trying to get stock to move around on it. Of course, I am a beginner, but it seemed like it was taking forever to get metal to move. I made a couple trips to the scrapyard the last few days and after reading some of the vast amount of articles on this forum, I bought more stuff each time I stopped by the scrapyard. I don't really want to waste what I picked up, so I was asking how to best use it. I am happy with what I found there. As to what tools do I have: Lincoln Stick welder Chop Saw Portaband Multiple angle grinders 4.5" & 7" 15" drill press Small belt grinder (1x42") #2) Good to see you are being bold and experimenting with your "4140". Hard to tell what condition you have when you get it from a scrap yard. I have 4140 scrap lying around here that is substantially more "reboundy" and tougher than my Swedish Soderfors anvil! And get rid of that plastic quenching bucket! I had to make a run to Walmart llate ast night, for my wife, and I found a 15 gallon steel pail with a lid. I am going to start using that for my quench bucket now. #3) You say you have a "4ft section of light rail". Sounds like there's nothing to hold you back! I'll bet there are lots of people getting the job done - drive it into ground and get to forging. Question is, what is "light rail"? I have 20#, 60#, 90#, and 111# (that's pounds per linear yard). See page 44 of the Thread: "Show me your anvil". See also the Thread: "Anvil Shaped Objects". Only something with a classic anvil shape, but is Useless, is an "ASO". Want a nice stake anvil? go to the junk yard and pull a couple of truck axles - viola. The light rail I have is a 4 ft section and weighs only about 40 lbs. Not sure exactly what kind of rail it is, but it seems kind of light for that size piece. As always, I count on the good people of this forum to correct me if I give poor advice. You should count yourself fortunate, Ancient, to have fallen in with this crowd, I amongst the least of them. Search the Forum, as many of your questions have been answered in posts past. I have been searching the forum, so much so, that I have hesitated to do any smithing the last couple of days. There is a massive amount of info to absorb. I thank you for helping me. I know people get tired of the same questions, but I have searched quite a bit and found lots of differing opinions, so I figured I would ask. Robert Taylor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancientsword Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/975709-block-anvil-inspired-by-Brian-Brazeal Thanks for that link, I had not found that one! That is very similar to the chunk that I got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 And no, a perimeter weld is not sufficient. The cost in time, consumables, etc to do major welds could be translated into doing paid work and *buy* a good anvil! I have seen people do good work using a sledge hammer head mounted in a stump. I have seen people do good work using a stone for an anvil. What is probably holding you back is *PRACTICE*! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anachronist58 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Dear Ancient, Thanks for your careful and detailed response. And thank you for carefully considering the contributions of the other Members. what are you intending to make, large things, small things the working part of an anvil is mostly about the same area as your hammer face depending on the type and weight of the rail you have, make a base for it and cut it off at a suitable height, for heavy work you may want it low but for light work you may want it high 125 lb is a good weight to start mostly through history anvils did not have horns but if you look out for a worn out tooth from an excavator bucket you will have something useful you can weld on Please answer Mr. Iron Dwarfs' question about what you are making. It's a really good question. If you are opening a paperclip factory, you are probably good to go with that 30# rail. Whatever your work goes between and and gets the work done, that stationary object is an Anvil! Thanks so much for replacing the bucket. I will sleep better tonight. I am sure others can and have contributed other critical safety guidelines concerning glowing (including Blackbody) metals and flammable/explosive materials. Anyone care to chime in on the truck axle w/hub disc an wheel stud holes as a Decent Post Anvil? Seems to me there is plenty of fabulous HORN right out of the "box". Ancient, before you get bogged down with Options, read Mr. Powers advice and go outside and FORGE! R. Taylor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Olivo Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 and where I started as reference http://s48.photobucket.com/user/nicrom/media/Picture053.jpg.html?sort=3&o=124 and where I am now http://ipneto.deviantart.com/gallery/ Your way ahead. Lets see you forge some stuff. Experiment. You won't know until you start playing around what it is you really want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caotropheus Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Where I live, anvils are extremely expensive...even more expensive when you're married (One of my fears is that something happens to me and my wife is going to sell my tools for the price I told her they cost me! :unsure: ) !... I am also in the process of assembling together one anvil and I was lucky enough to find at the scrap yard a chisel from an hydraulic breaker. Top impact steel, I doubt this steel is inferior to the steel used for highest quality anvils. My setup will be similar to this one '?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>> and eventually, I will find a way, somehow, to improvise a horn or several diameter shafts to use as a horn. For a year I use one 50 kg block of steel I found at the scrap yard but my skill remains lousy, just like in the first day I started forging. I wish I would have a real anvil... But these people do not seem to be bothered to use an anvil that is nothing more then a chunk of steel that looks just like mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Olivo Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 FE personally I wouldn't bother welding a horn to a dys anvil. I would make one I just wouldn't weld it to a post or block anvil. I am making a post anvil for a new smith I have become friends with out of rail road track and including a plate with 2 hardy holes in it that way we can take like a half inch thick plate and make a horn that is held in with a wedge for when you might need one but otherwise can be kept out of the way. Also makes it easier to move. In this way too she will still have the horn even when she gets another anvil. A horn can be a handy tool but really isn't that necessary as all bending or fullering can be done without one using the face of the anvil and its properly radioused corners. You can always make a easy bickiron to serve you for those times you find you need one. A separate stand that has one or more hardy holes in it would be better time spent then welding on a horn. Brian Brazeal is a good teacher that deals with the use of all the parts of an anvil as bottom dies so is Mark Aspery to name a few. The link I posted near the top is a copy of a anvil brian made to get people thinking of anvils differently. With those radiuses and flats you can do a lot of work without having a horn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anachronist58 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Caotropheus, Great example with those two fellows making scissors from just a fine block and a small separate bick. No Limits! Mr. Olivo: "personally I wouldn't bother welding a horn to a dys anvil." Completely Agree. I had not intended to weld anything to my own 3 x 9 x 15, and now certainly, I never will. Just being able to flip the thing to render three different elevations/surfaces is a real pleasure. Once again, I'm just a sponge, soaking in the IFI Slack-Tub of Wisdom. Robert Taylor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancientsword Posted January 9, 2014 Author Share Posted January 9, 2014 what are you intending to make, large things, small things the working part of an anvil is mostly about the same area as your hammer face depending on the type and weight of the rail you have, make a base for it and cut it off at a suitable height, for heavy work you may want it low but for light work you may want it high 125 lb is a good weight to start mostly through history anvils did not have horns but if you look out for a worn out tooth from an excavator bucket you will have something useful you can weld on I have wanted to start making knives since I was about 12, so mostly that. The more I get into it though, the more I would like to make. I find banging steel fascinating and making cool stuff out if just some old metal is fun. The block is working great, much, much better than my ASO. I also upped the weight of the hammer I was using and I am now able to move steel around easily! It might not be doing exactly what I want, but it is now fun, not an aggravation. Thanks for the help guys. I am working on my first set of tongs today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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