Crazy Ivan Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 I got an order for a 4 ft tall sculpture of Pluto pulling Persephone down into Hades complete with a 3 headed dog. I am very excited about such a detailed order but not entirely positive on the best way to go about making it. I have made smaller sculptures in the past, but nothing of this magnitude and detail.I have made smaller sculptures in the past by making a skeleton out of 1/4" round, then cold formed the torso and limbs in a simple rough cylindrical shape, then made the details like muscle, bends at joints and welded them onto the rough body shape and ground clean. My question is, does anyone know of a better, more practical way to create such a detailed sculpture? This technique does work for me just fine, but I would love to hear any ideas on a more practical way of doing it if it is out there. I planned on making this hollow from 16 ga steel and cold forming almost all of it (except the faces which i find easier to do hot, with a torch). Attached is a picture of what I am supposed to work off of with some artistic license allowed. Any thoughts and ideas are appreciated. Thanks! -Crazy Ivan http://www.greekmyths-greekmythology.com/myth-of-hades-and-persephone/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Have you studied how the Statue of Liberty was made/repaired? They were using copper but the same techniques do work for steel---especially if you use very low carbon deep draw steels! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Greetings Crazy, Now that's a tough commission.. Getting the sharp details out of 16g sheet will be hard.. The example you are to follow is cast for sure. 3d work from 1d will require a lot of armor style forge chase and repousse. And now for the hard part .. How do you price such a job??? Another thought is this for an outside display ? Detailed 16g does not weather well on the inside of the forms.. I will be following for updates.. Good luck Forge on and make beautiful things Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted November 24, 2013 Author Share Posted November 24, 2013 Thomas, great idea. I will look into that tonight. Jim, yes, this will be an outdoor display. I had the worry that it will not hold up well to the elements but he insisted that it will be fine with primer and paint (it is just for his backyard and not public installation or anything). Getting 3d out of sheet steel is not a problem for me because of the method I use that i described in the initial posting. More specifically I make each muscle, detail, and bend in individual sections and weld and blend them together on the "falsework". It sounds like a lot of annoying detail work, but its not that bad with good fit-up and welding. I was curious of any possible knowledge of an easier way if any haha. As for pricing....I have no idea! hahaha but i told him that it will take three weeks to a month so i would Price for him at $1000. I have done work for this person before and he always leave a generous amount over what I ask. Last month I made a Phoenix for him and asked $100 and he gave $200. I am bad at posting pics (it took me three weeks to get a profile pic up here!) but if folks are interested I can try to post Progress pics as I progress on it. I will be starting it in December. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Greetings Crazy, Your name fits .. LOL. Not enough money for 3 to 4 weeks work and material... I will watch close for pictures. Forge on and make beautiful things Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 I know it's a short price for so much work but the man I am making it for is in an unfortunate position. He has brain tumors and was recently given around 2 years to live give or take. He wants to make pieces for his backyard in the realm of multiple greek mythology things plus other "cycles of life" type artwork. I felt like this man must have quite expensive medical bills and if it will make him happy with his remaining time, I'll take the hit. I get more out of the satisfaction of making people happy then i do out of money. Giving myself three-four weeks to make this also allows for time on other orders I may get in between so its really not too detrimental to the functioning of my shop. -Crazy Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Your a good man Ivan... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeatGuy Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Start by making a wooden buck,At each station wrap paper onto the section to see where you need to shrink or stretch you material. Look into metal shaping; custom car people have a good handle on this sort of construction. A Pulmax or Trumpf mechanical nibbler would really help for the bulk of your metal shaping then add the detail with hand hammers. brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windancer Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Watching with bated breath.... Pics for sure! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted December 6, 2013 Author Share Posted December 6, 2013 It looks like I will be getting this project under way sometime around next Thursday. I'll try and post step by step pictures of the process. Needless to say I am very exited for this. Hopefully my patience and temper will stay in check haha. -Crazy Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Yeah, construction needs to be armature and chased shell, fitted and welded. For a painted outdoors application I'd use stainless painted with an acid etch epoxy. I'm glad I read your post about who it's for before I commented about price, I've done a few worthy cause pieces and salute you. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kustomsteel Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 I hope you can get pictures up because your method of sculpting seems very similar to mine. I agree with Frosty in applauding you taking a pay hit for something you feel worthy - it's just a shame that artists seem to take that hit more than others. I can't recommend an easier method other than sculpting it in clay and having a foundry do a casting. It sounds like your budget and time won't allow that... Best of luck and may your hammer strike true! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted December 15, 2013 Share Posted December 15, 2013 Greetings Ivan, Best get your picture frame out... That's a lot of work, Forge on and make beautiful things. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted December 15, 2013 Author Share Posted December 15, 2013 Thanks for the encouragement. I wanted to get this started thursday but holiday orders have been stacking up and I haven't got to start this yet. I can guarantee pics will be posted as I make progress! I hope you can get pictures up because your method of sculpting seems very similar to mine. I have always done sculpture this way and it does take a bit of extra work with the finish but it has not let me down yet. I will be ordering the steel next week and hopefully started very soon. Luckily the deadline is the first day of spring (because of the mythology behind the piece) so I have plenty of time to make it nice without getting too stressed with other orders that may come during the fabrication. Pics will be up soon. -Crazy Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagwood Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Any more progress Ivan? Sounds like a great project. Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 Regrettably, no. Unfortunately after not being able to contact him for a week, I went to his house to ask about a few design change ideas I had and found that he had passed. It made me pretty sad because he was a frequent customer and we had become friends because of our similar interests in Greek mythology and outlooks on life and art etc. So it has sat in a corner of my shop and I haven't worked on it since. I only had the armature, inner shell and base done for the lower half of Pluto below the knees. I do hope to make time to finish it by the first day of spring next year though because that was when he wanted it to be finished (this past spring). I will keep it though and not sell it because it wouldn't feel right to me to sell it now. So it has been on hold since January but hopefully I will get back to work on it in a couple months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagwood Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Sounds good, I hope you get to finish. Sorry to hear about your friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daghrim Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I have to say Ivan, I was climbing with excitement for you at the beginning of this thread and I can only say now that I can say I was up and down the roller coaster of emotions for you there. I do hope you finish your work if nothing else for a bit of closure, that and I am stupidly interested to see it done myself. That is of course very easy for me to say, since I am not the one doing all the work. Anyways, sorry for your loss man, also hope things are looking up now in 2016! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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