Building our first anvils

[Archerdan]

My son and I are just beginning on a small budget. We always seem to be a day late finding an old anvil.

 

We have found some big steel. Just in the planning stages of what to do with it. Any ideas would be appreciated. 

 

First is a 4"x13"x18" block of 1045.

 

Yesterday, we found some forks off a large fork lift and bought the vertical sections. 2@ 3"x8"x36" 

 

Was thinking of smaller, mobile anvils with the 3"X8" fork stock.

 

A large, stationary, shop anvil with the 4" 1045 stock.

 

Was thinking of turning a horn from round stock, and having it welded to the 1045. Have found suitable cut offs of CS steel, A2, S7,

D2, 320, and H13. I have a feeling only the CS will work. I am afraid the others would crack out. Can have finished anvil heat treated for $100.

 

Was thinking about laying out a pattern on the longer 3" stock and cutting and grinding

 

Your thoughts?

 

 

[MLMartin]

Before you get in a hurry to change the steel blocks I would mount the large 1045 block on a stand. I would recommend mounting it with the 4" side up. 4 by 13 or 4 by 18 would be just fine. Just leave the other steel alone for a while. Build, buy, or barrow a forge and start forging on the block, take any chance you two can to work with other blacksmiths for a day. Time spent with a knowledgeable smith will greatly shorten the learning curve of trying to learn by yourself. After a few months of hand forging you will have a much better idea of what you personally want in a anvil.

 

Many smiths around the world use much smaller steel blocks that are just rammed into the dirt and there forge is just a hole dug into the ground with some type of forced air supply.  I have watched people make many wonderful items with this a hammer in just two or 3 sets of tongs. If you add in a vise of some type and a hack saw you are ready to start working

 

Good luck

[windancer]

Yup- X2.

[jmccustomknives]

I'm just putting the finishing touches on a forklift fork anvil, I may try to post some pic later today if I get the chance 

[Archerdan]

MLMartin,

 

The 1045 seems soft, probably annealed, and we are brand new with a hammer. I guess it does have 4 sides.

 

I used a break drum forge with kingsford charcoal and a hair drier to show my son the colors,

where the magnet stops sticking, soaking, and quenching a stock removal knife blade. But two rookies with hammers on a soft block of steel.... At least it won't be a $2500 anvil. ;-)

[Rich Hale]

• All of the time and effort you spend on welding and fabbing a horn would really be better spent forging on the larger block you have. and length of fork lifr tine set in stand vertically  will work fine.
• Keep  eyes open for an anvil,,the more you have to have one the less your chance of finding one are,,,!!!

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Dan, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in your header it'll be a LOT easier to get together with IFI folk within visiting distance. And THAT my friend is my first piece of advice, hook up with the blacksmith organization near you. Every hour with an experienced mentor will save you days or even weeks of figuring it out yourself. Believe me I know, I'm largely self taught and it took decades to hit mid advanced levels.

 

Ayup, use the plate on it's side or end, 4" wide face is plenty for almost anything you're going to see done in a small hand work smithy. Horns can be handy but not as much as most new comers think. You'll get  more mileage out of a hardy hole or stand and it doesn't need to be on the anvil. A hardy hole mounted to a wood block or steel stand lose enough to be handy and out of the way is good. Close is close to the FIRE not the anvil. With a tool holder you can mount an anvil bic and not need a horn on the anvil at all. there are all kinds of tool you can put in a hardy hole shape tool holder, it's up to your needs and imagination.

 

The lift forks make excellent anvil, they're good stock, hard enough and tough as a wolverine's attitude. there are plans for fork lift tine anvils on IFI a search should give you all the info a boy could want.

 

The best advice so far, mine included is do NOT get in a rush. the faster you go the faster mistakes become uncorrectable.  If that plate has a smooth edge all you need to do is stand it up smooth up, build a fire and start learning. A good chisel or hacksaw handle cutting stock, a fire and air source, hair driers work a treat, a hammer and the plate. You're set. Seriously that's a better starter kit than I had by a long shot.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Rich Hale]

• All of the time and effort you spend on welding and fabbing a horn would really be better spent forging on the larger block you have. and length of fork lifr tine set in stand vertically  will work fine.
• Keep  eyes open for an anvil,,the more you have to have one the less your chance of finding one are,,,!!!

[quint]

Kind of curious now, so the 1045 wont harden that much but it should get a decent hardness correct, say even if its just in the high 40's. Another thought is if you could get some of that tool steel in the same dimensions as one of the edges you could have that welded on the top (probably wont be easy) and then you would have a square steel top anvil. 

 

Just ideas, where are ya located at. There are probably some groups around as mentioned that could even help ya with doing these things. 

[Everything Mac]

I was thinking if those fork lift tines are 3" thick. You could mount that on its side and perhaps weld it to your block. We know they're good steel and 3" is wide enough to work on. But make sure you round the edges with a flap disc on an angle grinder.

Good advice though. I know it's hard to take it slow but as said try not to rush into it too much. That 1045 with a stand and mounted on its side will be perfectly good for now. It might be soft compared to a hammer but put hot iron between the two and it will be fine.

As has been said, you don't need a horn. The nice flat surface you've got is more useful.

I'd actually recommend you make hunting for a good vice a priority over finding a "real" anvil. You can mount hardie tools in the vice and it would be significantly more useful than a horn.

All the best
Andy

[swedefiddle]

Mr. Archer,

 

Don't commit to using the edges of the plate only. If you make a stand that you have the choice of flat or on edge, that is better. Flat is a great upsetting block and for setting things on to check for flat.

 

If you stop being in a hurry to find an anvil, one will come your way when you are not looking. Anything can be an anvil, even a rock. Like what has been said up above, hook up with someone in your area. Time spent is worth GOLD.

 

just my $.02

 

Neil

[Archerdan]

A friend had a large stump to set the block on. I guess I could cut a slot in it with a chain saw to hold the steel block on edge.

I was going to weld an upsetting block on it to make it more stable. Maybe feet at the least. I envisioned the hardy tools being what I would need most. Seems to me like an extra set of hands. 

 

I have even thought of cutting a 1" slot into a thick piece of 4 inch wide steel to eld on the end to give me a hardy hole.

 

I live in Salem Utah. It is is my profile now.

[VaughnT]

Hardy holes are not all they're cracked up to be and you can do 99% of all the smithing that's ever been done without a hardy hole.  A good post vise, stoutly mounted will hold your hardy tools just as well and give you more flexibility.

 

An anvil like you have was used for about thousands of years before the hardy hole anvil was invented.  Vikings used to make pattern-welded swords and gorgeous armor on anvils not appreciably different than what you have.  

 

It's not the song, it's the singer!

 

Take your time and learn the basics.  Taper, round, square, bend, upset, twist..... none of that requires a hardy hole, but you'd be hard pressed to find a project that doesn't require those skills.

[swedefiddle]

Good Morning,

 

If you are hard pressed to have a hardy holder, take a piece of 1" square tubing and weld it to something or cut a hole through a section of your fork tines. A hardy holds other fixtures, what, is up to you. K.I.S.S. (Keep It Stupid Simple). You could get a swage block with different size hardy holes, they are out there. I have a half dozen different configurations.

 

Neil

[Archerdan]

I have been lurking for some time, without joining and posting. My internet searches kept pulling from this forum. Studying posts from this and other forums is why I had this particular heavy metal in the back of my truck in the first place. The 3" forks are 220 LBS. The 4" block of 1045 is 260 lbs. It wasn't long enough for the pattens I had studied, but I knew it was heavy enough to pound on and would do well for me.

I got it from another blacksmith about an hour away who I trusted when he told me it would serve me well.

 

He invited me in his shop and let me watch he and his apprentice work. He even let me work on his anvil, (which was incredibly selfless, letting someone new to the hammer have at your anvil) I learned a method of "Fullering" I believe is the word to isolate the the section to be tapered to a point. This is why the concern about the horn. I have been thinking I may be able to accomplish the same isolation using a cross peen without the horn. 

 

I don't have permission to use his name or go into details of his methods, but this is a first class human being.

 

Research has led me to purchase some 1084, and Cru Forge V, as well as HC RR Spikes for us to learn to use our anvil and and hammer, as well as heat treat. We already had a 58# section of RR track.

 

Thanks for your insight. 

 

Archerdan

[Frosty]

Radiusing an edge of the plate will make a die surface to use to isolate sections for forging and it's easier in my experience than using the horn.

 

Sure you can use a cross or straight pein for the same purpose but it takes good hammer control, a thing of practice.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Archerdan]

Radiusing an edge of the plate will make a die surface to use to isolate sections for forging and it's easier in my experience than using the horn.

 

Sure you can use a cross or straight pein for the same purpose but it takes good hammer control, a thing of practice.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

Thanks frosty. He did mention I would want to radius an edge, now that you mention it. Only one lesson of many to come I'm sure.

[Frosty]

You got that right, If we studied the craft hard the rest of our lives we'd only learn a small fraction of what's to know. I think of it as an endless smorgasbord kind of learning curve.

 

Check IFI for Brian Brazeals video how tos and  blueprints, he has some excellent techniques to share. well worth viewing and if you ever get the chance to attend a clinic you'll never regret it. He and Lyle are teaching dynamos besides being darned likable guys.

 

Frosty The Lucky.