Resources for decorative pattern welding

[Gundog48]

Hi,

 

I'm wondering if you could point me in the direction of any information regarding decorative pattern welding. I've had a good search but have been unable to find anything. Obviously there's plenty of info on pattern welding for blades and such, usually 15N20 and a high carbon steel. Obviously this is not ideal for decorative work, and 15N20 is quite difficult to come by for me, so I'd rather use something else. I've heard of people welding pure nickel and mild steel, but nothing really concrete. I'd like to get an idea on what materials are good for pattern weldingm what they look like and how they are to work with. I'll gladly take pictures of any billets I make and we could perhaps get a visual guide going? I'm looking to make things like belt buckles, ring and other jewelry and would like to know the effect of different materials and acids on the finished product without a lot of expensive trial and error!

 

Any resources you can provide would be most appreciated!

 

Thanks,

Jake

[Don A]

Jake,

 

The best I've seen on these forums is by Mick Maxen. You need to get in touch with him. I think he might be on your side of the Pond:

 

http://www.vikingdesign.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/maxen.html

 

He is a member here at Iforge if I'm not mistaken.

 

http://www.iforgeiron.com/user/14559-mick-maxen/

 

 

Don

[ThomasPowers]

The better knife books will tell you about what to expect when etching various alloys.  Remember you don't have to harden a billet made with high C alloys!

 

 

The original Decorative and Sculptural Ironwork, by Donna M has pictures of several pieces of wrought iron and nickle made into pastry tools.

[Sask Mark]

Jake,

 

Here are a couple of pendants I made in my first foray into pattern welding:

 

http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/26597-hot-bluing-damascus/

[Chinobi]

Gundog if you are planning to make rings and jewelry and the like have you looked in the Mokume Gane section of the site?  thats effectively the same process (i know somebody is going to pick a fight with that, but oh well) but instead of mixing different alloys of steel you can use brass, copper, nickel, sterling, gold....blah blah the list goes on.  the softer metals work easier and look really great in a bodily accessory role.  at least it sounds like thats the direction of product you are going for, rather than something that would need strength like a larger sculpture.

 

i would scan an example of some of the photo pages from the Mokume book i have, but im sure that would ruffle some feathers WRT copyright and the like.  El Google will set you straight :)

[Frosty]

I wanna pick a fight with Chinobi but the old meany didn't say anything I can pick one on. <sigh>

 

Mokume gane and forge welding are both diffusion welding only requiring different techniques. checkout Mokume Gane.com for examples of what can be done. Jim Binnion made Deb and my wedding rings.

 

Anyway, you can get nickle foil at jewelry and upper end hobby and craft shops. You can often buy high % nickle welding rods at welding supplys, go for the TIG rods and abvoid the flux. Welco 92 is or was 92% nickle welding rod aimed at the cast iron welder. I've even used coins but do NOT recommend defacing currency.

 

Frosty the Lucky

[Chinobi]

its only defacing currency when you completely screw it up and are left with warped, half destroyed, burnt coins (not that i would know anything about that, nor do i have a small and growing mountain of the aforementioned developing in my scrap box...)  :)  totally indistinguishable as coinage if you do it right :ph34r:

[Gundog48]

Thanks for the advice everyone! That work is beautiful Sask, I've got a lot of good competition! I have had a look at mocume gane quite a while ago, I was originally lost with the way it was laminated, it was in some kind of container if I remember right. I'll give it another read now and I'll likely understand it better!

 

As for books, I'll to what I always do- I'll download ones that seem relevant and buy the ones I want to keep. I've always found this the best way to find good books and is a prime example of how the evils of 'piracy' often lead to increased sales. If I wasn't able to download software and books for free, I probably wouldn't have bought 75% of the stuff I have! Do you have a title for that Mocume book Chinobi?

 

Good point about the welding rods, never considered that! I've seen sheet nickel for sale, but always thought it should be thicker, I guess for stuff like that I could weld sheet steel to sheet nickel? How is nickel when it comes to welding and working?

[Sask Mark]

Thanks Jake.  My stuff is still pretty rudimentary, yet it's pretty satisfying to make something that so few of the general population understand.  The most common question is 'How do you get those lines in the steel like that?'.

[Chinobi]

i have Mokume Gane (Jewellery Handbooks), by author Ian Ferguson

http://www.amazon.com/Mokume-Gane-Jewellery-Handbooks-Ferguson/dp/0713661569

 

i want (and yes i know i complain about this far too often, but this is one of very few things that REALLY bug me)

Mokume Gane - A Comprehensive Study by author Steve Midgett

http://www.amazon.com/Mokume-Gane-Comprehensive-Steve-Midgett/dp/0965165078/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1367525125&sr=1-1&keywords=steve+midgett

first time i have seen the used copy price below 300$!

 

if you get really serious about it you can go the route that Ariel Salaverria (http://www.aescustomknives.com/) does with the box to contain it, but you can make it happen with simple torque plates as depicted elsewhere on this site and online.  it has been done with as little as tie wire to keep the stack together as well.

 

you will not be bored with the ammount of reading material you will find yourself covering trying to get the hang of it :)

[Frosty]

its only defacing currency when you completely screw it up and are left with warped, half destroyed, burnt coins (not that i would know anything about that, nor do i have a small and growing mountain of the aforementioned developing in my scrap box...)  :)  totally indistinguishable as coinage if you do it right :ph34r:

 

I see, so you're saying that if someone were to use Canadian quarters and dimes for their high nickle content in a pattern welded forge shovel the Mounties wouldn't decend on said unknown character like the red tide? Not that I'd know anything about it, not even what dates the Canadian mint stopped using near pure nickle.

 

Frosty the Lucky

[Chinobi]

the mounties dont have jurisdiction in the US do they? :)  your forge shovel secrets are safe with me! (its the rest of the internet that you might want to keep any eye on :ph34r: )

 

but thanks for the heads up on the canadian composition, i have a small dish of thems at home too :D

[Wroughton]

i want (and yes i know i complain about this far too often, but this is one of very few things that REALLY bug me)

Mokume Gane - A Comprehensive Study by author Steve Midgett

http://www.amazon.com/Mokume-Gane-Comprehensive-Steve-Midgett/dp/0965165078/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1367525125&sr=1-1&keywords=steve+midgett

first time i have seen the used copy price below 300$!

I  bought that book for face value ($40-$50) around 2005-6 and gave it to a friend for letting me use his electric kiln and press to make some copper/nickel mokume billets. He ALMOST looks guilty when he talks about. At least I still have access to it. 

 

Technically, it is better than the other mokume books out there but there's not much for trade secrets. Picture quality and examples of beautiful works abound though and it's very inspiring. 

[Quarry Dog]

WOW, that price reminds me of a particular song by Nirvana.  I could by a decent anvil at that price, new and used respectively.

[basher]

If you are considering using steel or iron as your basic materials then what you need for decorative materials is one with a high manganese content to get a deep black and one that will etch bright (ie resist the etch) . most high manganese steels are carbon steels ...

 nickel is fine to forge weld but does not  like to be forged at 90 deg to the weld it can also cause problems with twisting. pure nickel is incredibly expensive.

 

mild steel is a muddy grey when etched so avoid that.

 

we have a grade of boiler plate that has a high nickel content in the uk but I cant remember the name?

 

I would use the good old 15n20 and 1080 mix as they work so well together I would also harden them as the etch bites so much better on hardened damascus

Mick maxen sells both these steels  in small quantities.

 

http://www.patternweldingsteels.co.uk/

 

 

carbon steel does rust though.

 

mokume can be really beautiful.