Eddie Mullins Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 I’m just about 2 months into smithing, but am obsessed and viewing the world from a different perspective now. I am using a coal forge I built, but have been pondering the potential benefits of a gas forge, which if I pursue, I would also build. Well, when cooking fish on my jet burner recently you can guess where my thoughts went – potential forge burner : ) . This jet cooker is designed for rapid heating of larger cook pots (like for crawfish boils) and is not your typical propane burner. Very simple design, and relatively inexpensive, but also looks easy to build. I had to take it to the shop and see what it would do. It got 3/8 rod up to forging temp with little trouble. I will probably continue to use as is for spot heating / finishing / etc (plus I can’t destroy my cooker), but am thinking this burner could be replicated easily (or is cheap enough to buy another - only about $30 including the hose w/ connections) and may be suited for a forge build project. I was thinking one option might be a small "bean can" type (or on that scale, maybe even with bricks), I could make use of the stand with the burner, and just fab a small portable forge that could be placed on top. The burner could then be used as a cooker or forge as needed. I could also buy or build additional burners for larger or more permanent set ups. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 The major issues with many burners not designed for forge work is that they may have problems with the back pressures of a forge and that they often do not have the choke controls to adjust the atmosphere in a forge---eg: a cutting torch will heat metal; but the excess oxygen causes problems! There are several easy to build forge burner plans on the net you may want to try out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 It may be doable but there are problems you won't even know about till you give it a try. A commercially built forge burner is typically over $100 ea. So, if you have something that works for the $30 range it's be a good thing. Still, the potential problems make it a tough call. We may be able to make better guesses if you show more pics. Show it burning from a side view and a close up of the air intake end. Put something in that shot for scale, a tape measure or ruler is perfect. There are plenty of easy to build burner plans all over the place, available to a search. Frosty the Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Mullins Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 It may be doable but there are problems you won't even know about till you give it a try. A commercially built forge burner is typically over $100 ea. So, if you have something that works for the $30 range it's be a good thing. Still, the potential problems make it a tough call. We may be able to make better guesses if you show more pics. Show it burning from a side view and a close up of the air intake end. Put something in that shot for scale, a tape measure or ruler is perfect. There are plenty of easy to build burner plans all over the place, available to a search. Frosty the Lucky. Thanks - I'll take some more pics. This design is so simple ( or apears so to me) its almost scary LOL. Probably too good to be true, but since its already here, I figure it wouldn't hurt to try it, if it don't work, I can also make one from the plans out there. Any characteristics I should be looking for in the flame? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Mullins Posted April 25, 2013 Author Share Posted April 25, 2013 I thought I would add a little more info. THis burner uses a 20 PSI regulator and is rated at 185,000 BTU's, which theoretically should be sufficient for just over 400 cubic inches based on the 450 btu per cubic inches I believe I have read previously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingmaker3 Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 7" dia by 10" long would be just shy of 400 cu in. Go for it. What have you got to loose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 One thing is I bet the jet burner will consume far more fuel than a good venturi burner... I think you could spend the money in propane that a real forge burner would cost in short order.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Mullins Posted April 27, 2013 Author Share Posted April 27, 2013 Here is a shot of the flame from the side. The flame is about 24 inches high. And a pic of the burner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Mullins Posted April 27, 2013 Author Share Posted April 27, 2013 Well - there's probably some problem I don't know enough to recognize yet, and I need to cut some brick to make the form a little better, but, I got 1/2 square stock to a yellow heat with not preheat of the staked brick forge, and it just took a couple minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 The shot of it burning from the side shows it to be running rich, so a major consideration is going to be CO. It isn't going to scale up stock in the fire but it will pump out badness in enclosed spaces. I can't tell from the pics but it appears to be the same configuration as a weed burner, basically a gas jet shooting up a short straight tube. No adjustment for air intake and it'll burn how it does. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale M. Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 It may be doable but there are problems you won't even know about till you give it a try. A commercially built forge burner is typically over $100 ea. So, if you have something that works for the $30 range it's be a good thing. Still, the potential problems make it a tough call. We may be able to make better guesses if you show more pics. Show it burning from a side view and a close up of the air intake end. Put something in that shot for scale, a tape measure or ruler is perfect. There are plenty of easy to build burner plans all over the place, available to a search. Frosty the Lucky. IT not in $30 range but maybe very affordable.... http://www.axner.com/mr-750venturiburner.aspx Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Okay, that is a commercial linear burner and shouldn't have any serious inherent problems. It needs to be adjusted. My first thought is too much pressure, turn the reg down. the chart on the site says 10psi max above and the air fuel ratio suffers. This is normal for naturally aspirated burners of all types. My next thought is open the choke plate till it's burning in a clear two stage flame. So, first turn it down to mid range between 5-10 psi. 7 psi looks to be smack in mid range of it's performance curve. Then start opening the choke plate (the round plate that changes how much air can be entrained.) Once you get a well defined three stage flame tighten the jam nut so the choke plate can't move. THEN try it at different psi settings. It should produce a reasonably clean flame at all psi within it's range, 2-10psi. What's a three part flame? Look at a oxy acet torch flame. Closest to the tip is the darker blue cone, the primary #1. Next out is a more clear flame that extends farther, the secondary, #2, farthest is the feathery or soft flame, #3. For a forge we want a slightly rich flame so the #3 flame is more distinct and has slightly orange feathery ends. The flame as you have it set is ALL seconary ending in YELLOW fluttering flames! If you see yellow flame from a torch it's burning so rich it's not doing much but generating CO (Carbon Monoxide). That you're getting impressive heat in your forge is testement to how well this burner works. Get it tuned properly and it'll be a treat indeed. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spruce Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Out of curiosity, has anyone used the venture burner posted above? Here's the link again: http://www.axner.com/mr-750venturiburner.aspx At $40ish if it worked well it would be worth buying just to save the time it takes to make a burner - without a lathe, getting everything lined up perfectly plumb, drilling and tapping, etc. $40 is worth it all day long for me. So howabout it, anyone used one? How's it work? Spruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Dale's using one now and only needs to get the hang of it. It should be at least as good a burner as any home made one. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Mullins Posted May 4, 2013 Author Share Posted May 4, 2013 Out of curiosity, has anyone used the venture burner posted above? Here's the link again: http://www.axner.com/mr-750venturiburner.aspx At $40ish if it worked well it would be worth buying just to save the time it takes to make a burner - without a lathe, getting everything lined up perfectly plumb, drilling and tapping, etc. $40 is worth it all day long for me. So howabout it, anyone used one? How's it work? Spruce I agree for the price if it works, it would be worth it to me rather than making one. I think the 7 psi regulator on my other cooker should be about right for it. Not quite sure how to mount it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 I agree for the price if it works, it would be worth it to me rather than making one. I think the 7 psi regulator on my other cooker should be about right for it. Not quite sure how to mount it? IMHO, a 7 psi reg is too small for typical naturally aspirated forge burners; especially if you want to weld. I can weld in my blown forge with ease at less than 7 psi but it has a huge orifice (.05") through a 1.25" tube. However, my N/A forge, with a .035" orifice through a 1" tube has to run at a much higher pressure, 12 psi or higher to get welding temps. 15 - 30 psi regs are typical for forging apps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastRonin Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 Eddie, what is the brand and model of that cooker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 The webpage selling these burners recommends a 0-30psi regulator. the one off your BBQ or crab cooker isn't going to do it, I know, tried it more than once before I learned. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale M. Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 Dale's using one now and only needs to get the hang of it. It should be at least as good a burner as any home made one. Frosty The Lucky. Sorry there is a misunderstanding here, I do no have one, I was asking about the validity of the particular unit though.....It seems to have all the attributes that are required for a burner though,,, It is venturi fed, has air adjustment (choke) and fuel jet/connection and is documented for temperature ranges.... Can't see that it is much if any different from most other venturi burners other than it s a bit shorter (desirable) and more cost effective.... The way I see it a venturi burner is a venturi burner no matter what its called and what application it is used for..... Probably find out its something designed for totally different application than what the link claims it to be.... I am really thinking of using two if and when I get around to building a gas forge... http://www.gasapplianceco.com/pdf/venturi_spec.pdf This seems to be parent company... http://www.gasapplianceco.com/ As for mounting, same as any other venturi burner... Weld a sleeve on outside of forge body, drill and tap for a few set screws and insert output end of burner into sleeve and tighten setscrew against burner body.... Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted May 9, 2013 Share Posted May 9, 2013 Edit to my pev post after reading Frosty's last: I meant 0-30 not 15-30 (Sorry, brain freeze :D ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Mullins Posted May 9, 2013 Author Share Posted May 9, 2013 My jet cooker is a Bayou Classic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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