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Anvil restoration showdown


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I want a few opinions on this. I read a lot of different postings on anvil restoration, so after talking to another IFI member have decided to do a side by side restoration on 4 tool steel/wrought anvils and compare cost, appearance, rebound, ease of application, hardness, etc. I have done one with a tig and 308SS, and have ordered the goods to restore one with Robb Gunther's method, one with Messler MG710, and one with ERS70 under Stoody 965g .045 mig. Would this be helpful to anyone? That said, is there anyone in SW Michigan that has an anvil in need of repair that I could buy for this trial? I respect all the info here, and want to do what I can to help advance more info. Shoot me an IM if you can help! Like I said, I'll pay fair market price. Lets do this together!

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I'll take a crack at it and order some Lincoln Wearshield 15CrMn... Unless someone that understands the composition of the above mentioned methods doesn't directly correlate.... ie a different avenue of approach.

 

I'm thinking it would be different, as its a work hardened deposit rather than the air cooled tool steel (MG710)... Also question for the masses regarding build up... Would 10018 be a good choice, or should I just build up with the 15crmn???

 

Oh, and my candidates for weld repair are a Sodforers sweden

 

photo_zpsd4338b7a.jpg

 

and lovely German Trenton that looks like it was beat with a pick axe...

 

phototrenton_zps7ca5bddc.jpg

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Thanks to this gentleman, we have an example of what an anvil looks like a year after being welded up with 7018... Not bad, but comparing his end product from a year ago to this update, there is significant wear... Thank this individual through the link to the video, as he served this thread a great bit of help in regards to repair... So yes it works per-say, but wears a significant amount over the course of a year...

 

http://youtu.be/-GVuAd5qxzo

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German Trenton that looks like it was beat with a pick axe...

I kinda wonder about this one....Is it soft? Looks like some moron used it for an OA cutting table and possibly used it as a heating platform as well. If it's still hard why not mill/grind the surface?

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The file skips across the face and it yields ok rebound, there are just so many blemishes throughout the face... Also, I'm unsure as whether or not the face had already received mill work, because it looks as if one edge is mushrooming out because the plates too thin...

I kinda wonder about this one....Is it soft? Looks like some moron used it for an OA cutting table and possibly used it as a heating platform as well. If it's still hard why not mill/grind the surface?

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It's not so much how it looks when you are done but how it looks after 25 years of working on it that's important.  That 1 year pic is a great start.

 

 

 

That right there... That's the reasoning behind all this effort... I would love to see some of these other examples of repair, rod used, duration and longevity of use under the hammer... I hear there are anvils everywhere that have held up for 20 years after they used rod "X007", but no pictures of where they are now...

 

 

That 1 year pic shows that 7018 doesn't meet the standard for any real long term forge work. It probably suits the needs of the individual, but there is a significant difference in the fresh product and it's first birthday...

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Hi all, new to this site but not to blacksmithing or welding. I found you while reasearching something else. I've been welding for 40 years and blacksmithing off and on longer started when I was a kid. I have repaired a number of anvils and here is my two cents worth. Use a new grinding disk to clean and prep the work, pre heat and while welding let the anvil cool if it gets too hot. I build up with Bohler Thyssen UTP 65 maintenance rod or 10018. (I prefer Arc welding these) I then hard surface with Eutectic hss or I have used lincoln hard surfacing rod. I'm sure that any hard surfacing rod which is for impact resistance and wear should work. I learned the hard way that if you run multiple layers let the anvil cool if it gets too hot the weld WILL crack. I always use one of my pneumatic needle scalers to chip slag and peen the weld to relieve stress. When done welding I finish grind and shape with a cup wheel. It takes time and rod is expensive so it's a labor of love so to speak. I have used a Peter Wright quite a bit which I repaired this way and it is in great shape after 10 years. I just repaired a Hay Budden which had parted company with most of it's face plate last fall great ring & rebound but I don't use it much. I have repaired several others also all with good results. If you would like to see pics of anvils or tools mentioned let me know I'll try to post some. I may need some assistance in posting pics as I am not familar with the site yet. Thanks in advance for posting help and good luck with the anvil repairs!

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Hi Cleetis, I will take some pics and post 'em. Save me some time, how do you post pictures here? I will try to get pics tonight. Where I live there is NO Cell service or high speed internet access so I have to come in town to my office so no pics till tomorrow. I'll be here at work for a few more minutes.

Thanks

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Hi Cleetis, I will take some pics and post 'em. Save me some time, how do you post pictures here? I will try to get pics tonight. Where I live there is NO Cell service or high speed internet access so I have to come in town to my office so no pics till tomorrow. I'll be here at work for a few more minutes.

Thanks

Awesomesauce!!! 

 

I've had immense luck with singing up photobucket.com, as soon as you register and create an account you can upload pics by the hundreds... Then go to your library, and each picture has a list of codes generated underneath it, copy the code in the box that says(IMG CODE), and paste that code directly in your reply post... 

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With all the repair methods you have discribed you could classify them as good, better and best. I think you will find that one will fit into every catogory. I have always looked at anvil repair this way. How much do you want to spend dollar wise, and time and effort. I would not waste the time and effort and expensive rods on lets say a Vulcan but I would on a Fisher. Don't forget the best bang for your buck good old 7018 which alot of people have used.  When you start to grind and shape the hard surfacing welds you will understand why some choose other methods. I will be curious to see your findings. Good Luck!

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the picture of the anvil of 7018 welded surface should be evident to everyone to steer well away from that technique. I have stated before that it is a soft weld, despite many quoting that 7018 becomes "work-hardened". Maybe it does but not to the level of a blacksmiths repeated usage.

 

I wished I was in a position to repair my PW 198 pounder. I would continue with the Rob Gunther method...or the MG610.

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As soon as I get my covetous meat hooks on 3 broken anvils we will do a careful comparison. I have the cost figured out per rod, and will measure the ground out area--keeping track of not only rods used, but try to figure out how many rods it took to fill a certain size area. I'm excited! And no, normally I don't discriminate against an anvil, but no Vulcans will be used in testing. I couldn't justify the cost.

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I am in the middle of completing a Gunter repair process on a 300lb Hay Budden. The restoration included the build up of a missing 5x5x12 section of top plate. I used the Stoody 2110  and 1105 stick rods for the build up and surfacing respectively. Welding is complete. Plan to get with the finish grinding this weekend. I have been documenting the process with photos and notes and I can post a detailed report when done if anyone is interested.

 

 

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I am in the middle of completing a Gunter repair process on a 300lb Hay Budden. The restoration included the build up of a missing 5x5x12 section of top plate. I used the Stoody 2110  and 1105 stick rods for the build up and surfacing respectively. Welding is complete. Plan to get with the finish grinding this weekend. I have been documenting the process with photos and notes and I can post a detailed report when done if anyone is interested.

 

 

Can't thank you enough for that Beebs!

 

I believe I've seen your Budden in person as well as it's damaged state, if you bought it from a gent named toni in Riverview, FL.... What a MONSTER!!! Glad to hear your putting it back into commission...

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IMG_0281_zpsb7ef6c4b.jpg

 

 

Less than 5mm on this side, and double that (9-10mm) on the other side... Obviously not enough meat to defend it from the 6 year old neighborhood delinquent yielding a pick axe... I like the idea of using empirical data, the internet is a dangerous place for rumor... Oh, and what kind of precaution should I take with these CrMn rods... Do I need any kind of respirator set up? Or will a well ventilated area and a "hey don't huff the smoke" approach suffice??? 

IMG_0282_zpse647e289.jpg

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The SOFA anvils were repaired using a method provided by Hobart. You can contact them directly for the procedure, but rod used is Hardalloy 58. That is what I used when I made my big anvil a few use ago. There is a thread on that here somewhere. They advise using Hardalloy 32 as an unlayment, but if you already have a fairly hard surface, I don't think that's necessary. You MUST preheat and slow cool. If you a running a very large area, you need watch your interpass temp and make sure it doesn't get too hot. I'd advise shooting for 600f preheat. My anvil was probably hotter than that and I welded on it straight for 7 hours so it is a little softer than I would like but that is my fault, not a problem with the rod. NOTE that you cannont weld more that two layers (according to Hobart) without Hardalloy 58 cracking. Hardalloy 58 has low to mid-50s HRc hardness as welded (assuming you don't get it too hot). It is not a high wear resistance rod so it grinds pretty easy. If you use a work hardening rod like those designed for rock crushers etc. you will likely have to heavily deform the weld deposit to attain the hardness you want. That means you will need to weld and beat the tar out of the face, then grind smooth.

 

Patrick

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