scrolling. need help

[midgaoutdoor]

i am new to this artsy stuff, I specalize in reclaimed wood. anyway, i dopnt have an anvil or forge. i want to bend a simple scroll for a scrolled candle holder like i saw in a book. i am trying to bend it around pipes in a vise using them like dies. i heat the metal with oxypropane alittle along and about half way around it kinks good. its 1/8 by 2 inch. its all i have at the moment. could i do it with one of those compact benders from harbor freight? it comes with several dies. i dont need a real fancy scroll justt bend it around a pipe.

[midgaoutdoor]

like this
http://www.etsy.com/listing/100247885/scroll-candle-holder?ref=sr_gallery_12&ga_includes%5B%5D=tags&ga_search_query=scroll+candle+holder&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery

[easilyconfused]

How far are you heating? For smooth curves, you need a longer heat. How long depends on the piece. Could you post a picture of your setup? What you've described should work for what you want.

[Timothy Miller]

You can not make a scroll by bending it around a pipe. A pipe has a constant radius a scroll has a ever increasing radius along its legnth. You need a scroll form. If you are getting a kink you are over bending at that point. If you can only get a small section of heat. Don't try to bend it beyond the hot section. Once you have bent the hot part stop and heat the next part. It takes a bit of self control to do because you want to do it all at once .

[John B]

You can use bending forks or pins to produce the odd scroll or two, and if you are using heat, heat it about twice as long as the length you are working, as soon as you get to the cooler less red bit it will start to kink at that point, so keep working the heat along its length, you will need to heat the metal for a tight scroll end, for the more gentler curve you could do it cold.

[Frank Turley]

The cheesy "pipe scroll." Since the subject was broached, I would like to say that those "scrolls" are quite popular on fabbed work in the U.S. I often notice them in restaurant interiors, but they are common to all sorts of ironwork, including exterior porch columns, grilles, etc. I can only guess that a slot is cut into the top edge of a pipe opening and the flat stock is dropped in the start things. These "scrolls" all have a straight center with a crook instead of the desirable smooth curve. I think that they are atrocious, but I don't believe they are critiqued by the general populace.

Tom Bredlow told me once, "There is no such thing as good taste or bad taste; you either have taste or you don't."

[ThomasPowers]

Actually you can do spirals without a curved surface, just with a hammer and a flat surface---like an anvil face.

You start by heating the end of the piece up and sticking a bit over the edge of the anvil and tapping it down to make an L shape and then you reheat and turn it over and use the hammer to pull the leg of the L over into a curve and then hitting on the outside of the curve you encourage more to curve, etc.

[David Gaddis]

For the young smith...the description is much more simple than the implementation. A good scroll by hand takes experience and time...less time after much experience. You too can do as these masters have told you so do not feel bad about your example. Now with your eye-opening critiques that have been offered use that information and go forward. Look up "scroll" and "golden mean" to see how that information may be used by yourself too. All good smiths have travelled the very same road on their destination to good scrolling.


Carry on

[Borntoolate]

you could probably get the tight part of the scroll done with a short heat and small diameter pipe and then as long as you have some length on your flat bar you could make the longer more gentle bend cold/warm as long as you hold the metal far enough away from where you want the bend. Too close and you're more likely get a kink. Then to reverse the bend just wedge it between to bars that are an inch or so apart and gently, without kinking reverse the bend. move the bend inside the two bars so that you don't kink one spot. heat will make it less likely to kink. Basically just two bars in a vice sticking up, an inch apart or whatever makes sense (bending fork). if you have a 2" pipe or so you could use it like the horn on the anvil to make some gentle tweaks to the bends with a hammer, done either hot or cold. Cold could make unsightly shiny hammer marks on your work. You might want to locate and drill your hole first since doing that after bending will be a little more complicated... maybe.

[ThomasPowers]

You can also make a simple bending fork by taking a piece of round stock---say a 1/2" diameter and 6-8" length of automotive coil spring and bending it double and forging it to fit catty corner in your anvil hardy hole and then separating the upper lengths by the distance needed.

You could even make this such that you could lag bolt it to the side of a stump, no anvil needed. (reply to below)

[Timothy Miller]

The guy doesn't even have a anvil. This is why I have suggested getting scroll form from the blacksmith depot. Just for the record I have forged over 5000 scrolls in my time as a smith. I would look at bending forks as a second option for him but they require some skill to use and you need some forging skills or welding ability to make them. He is tiring to do it quick and dirty. I don't think he is interested in acquiring the traditional skills of a blacksmith he just wants to do whatever works.