A few questions

[Serdano]

Hello to all who see this. First of all, if this in the wrong place, I am sorry. If someone can move it (if need be) then please do so. And second I am a newbie to this form of hobbie so please try not to bombard me with to many advanced topics unless needed.

Now on to my questions.

I am mostly looking into forging knives, some swords, and various small armor pieces and sword canes (I've gotten a lot of hate from this). My problem at the moment is that I have very little room to set up a proper forge and/or permanent work space. In around a year to a year and a half from I will be moving to Arkansas, and I know for sure I will have plenty of room. My first question is that Is it possible to simply heat up an object through a blow torch(or others similar to it) while it is in a stone container, then transferred to a mold of something small (such as a basic knife) without causing huge amounts of smoke and debris(waste)?

Instead of asking multiple questions at once, I will simply ask them as they are answered.


Sorry for anything out of place or odd, as I am at work and a bit rushed.

Thanks to everyone in advance.

-Tim

[ThomasPowers]

Blades are not poured into a mold. Most are not drop forged using dies.

Sure you can heat up metal with a torch. It will cost more and not do as good a job as making a simple propane burner out of plumbing parts; but it can be done. (Sort of like asking "can I move 16 tons of gravel using my convertable? Yes but it's not a good idea...)

I've made a 1 firebrick forge that used a simple plumber's torch to heat and was useful for small items. The forge tools and anvil all fit in a 5 gallon bucket for storage.

Where in Arkansas? In the NW corner is Tom Maringer a pretty much retired swordmaker
http://www.shirepost.com/Cutlery.html

In the SW corner is the American Bladesmith Society school in Texarkana:
http://www.americanbladesmith.com/index.php?section=pages&id=128

Note when I lived in AR there was still a law on the books forbidding the sale or bartering of swords; everybody ignored it as it was a reconstruction era law as I recall but it was still there.

Swordcanes as concealed deadly weapons can put you in a world of hurt legally. I don't wonder you have taken some flack for it. Shame to see a blademaker go to prison!

I've got 13 acres near Cedarville (about a dozen miles north of Van Buren/Fort Smith) so I may end up back there again too.

[Serdano]

How small do you mean (1 firebrick forge)?

Somewhere around Little Rock as I have family there.
Currently I am in Houston, TX...in the middle of city.
My backyard is not the best place to make a forge, so I am looking for other ways.
I am not selling any of my products.
I understand that swordcanes are considered deadly weapons and that the law is not always on my side, the cane is simply for certain areas of "carry" only.


edit: By how small do you mean I meant the items not the forge.

[Steve Sells]

Do you have any metal working skills? Ever worked with hot metals ?

You started by stating you want to avoid advanced subjects, then start with the advanced subject of blades, with out stating what level of smith you are. Then you followed up with a non metal worker question.

People tend to want to help more when they feel you have tried to learn a little and read up on your own before diving in. Its like coming in and telling us ya cant drive a car and dont want a lot of tehnical information, but then ask how to build a car and win a Foumula One race.

Try reading a bit in the knife section, See the sticky's and getting started information are good places to begin. Also coming in for the knife chat starting up again later this month will help

[Serdano]

No and no. I am simply asking questions of this sort to eliminate ideas in my head that seem to be possible (such as using a blow torch and a stone bowl), so that I have an idea to start upon in the librarys and talking to other people (failed in that scenario) .

I know enough of knives to tell you the shape needed to cut someone open, type of material to sharpen with, etc.

I have never forged a weapon nor any other object in my life. The most I could tell you about blacksmithing is that it requires $$$, brains, and a whole lot space.

( If I come across as rude, I must say that in my experiences most people wont help people who know nothing, simply because they are un-american, lazy, and think they are so much higher then you in life).


I will see what I can do in reading the "knife section".

[ThomasPowers]

"The most I could tell you about blacksmithing is that it requires $$$, brains, and a whole lot space."

Actually you have two out of the three *wrong*! I've built a complete beginner's set up for under US$25 including forge blower anvil and basic tools---good forge too it was my favorite billet welding forge for several years. The most "fancy" tool I used to make it was a 1/4" drill.

I forged for 15 years in inner city Columbus Ohio; had a 100 year old house with a brick road in front of it and used a detached un powered garage from the 1920's as my smithy. Not a whole lot of space. One student ran a forge when he lived in a *dorm* in college

As for how big is a one fire brick forge. It's one *soft* firebrick wide and long so one example would be 9” X 4 1/2” X 2 1/2” the working cavity is of course smaller. I used to use the one I made in the basement of the previously mentioned house as it got COLD in Ohio! I used it to forge the 40 nails needed for my mastermyr chest repro, I hot forged a bunch of silver penannular brooches in it too---back when silver was $5/oz...and I forged small eating knives like the self hilted squirrel knives. 1/4" stock was fine 3/8" stock was probably the upper limit with my cheapo torch. As I mentioned the forge, torch & small propane tank, anvil, hammers and tongs all fit in a 5 gallon bucket.

As you are in the USA you can go to the local public library and ask to ILL "The Complete Modern Blacksmith" which will get you started pretty much for peanuts. After you learn a bit of blacksmithing I would then suggest you read "The Complete Bladesmith"

Also look into the local ABANA affiliates where you live and start attending meetings---it will shorten your learning curve a LOT over trying to learn it off the net! (as will good books; why some folks believe that a dozen web pages written by who knows who replace 200 pages of a book written by a master of the craft...)

[Steve Sells]

I do not mind helping people that know nothing, I do a lot of that. This is also a world wide forum, so anyones country of origin has noithing to do with it, also calling someone Un american is off base, But as for being lazy, who is the one here that posted with out even noticing we had a knife section, so careful about name calling. I took the time form my day to point you toward your answers, then you get upset at being told where to read things to get the answers, you are really getting off on the wrong foot today. But thats fine I wont bother you with my information any more, except to point out you should also read terms of service for being apart of the I forge Iron community.

[jmccustomknives]

I started out with a oxy/acetylene rosebud blowing into a small firebrick box. Even forge welded cable with it. Totally ineffecient and expesive to opperate (I work for a welding supply, discounts help). ;) I might suggest Wayne Goddards books, they are pretty good but you have to dig through them. Start small, the more you learn, you'll realize you knew nothing.

Some body who still knows nothing :wacko:

[son_of_bluegrass]

You mentioned I believe HABA is Houston Area Blacksmith Assn. Look them up (ABANA affiliate if memory serves). Show up interested and polite and you'll likely get started.

[ThomasPowers]

Stewart----play nice!

[WmHorus]

Hey at least he didnt suggest watching Conan at the beginning

[Glenn]

Let us see what Serdano says, and what questions he has, so we can point him in the right direction of information.

[switchjv]

I consider myself a "beginer". i would suggest leaving the foundry work for later. start off with Your basic bladesmith-blacksmithing hammer skills. Do a lot of research on the internet and the library on methods and practices of bladesmithing....AND most of all, PRACTICE.

I built my first gas forge for about 20$.. Using materials from second hand building stores and garage sales, yard sales ect... just keep in mind that there will definately be mistakes made along the way.

[Gundog48]

We were all new once, some still are! If you have to determination and passion to learn, try, fail, try again, fail until you finally get there, then you have everything you need. You have a lot of misconceptions, these are easily remedied through research. First things first, you need to learn some basic blacksmithing skills, going onto blades before learning the fundamentals of moving steel is a recipe for disaster. Read Basic Blacksmithing, which is available free on the net, just Google it.

After a couple of months at least doing this (you should really give it longer, but impatience ), you can consider moving on to knives. Get The Complete Bladesmith and read it cover to cover, it includes everything from forge design, types of steel and the actual process of forging blades. It will tell you that you need more tools than you do, all you need is a forge, a lump of steel as an anvil, a hammer and an angle grinder, plus some files and sandpaper for finishing. Flap disks speed up removal, you can look into a belt grinder once you've really gotten into things, I don't have one, it's really not necessary. I also work in a garage and can fit everything in there easily.

Its up to you where you go from here, I wouldn't suggest moving onto swords until after a good year of knifemaking. But really it's up to you, personally I've started swordsmithing far too early, and failed, but you learn things through practical work so that you can better understand what's written on paper. When you move onto blades, expect to fail, if you don't, you'll get frustrated and give up before you've given it a proper chance. Just move nice and slow, learn why you do what you do, make every hammer blow count, that's how you learn. I spent the best part of a a week on a blade that cracked when I heat treated it, you have to live with these things and put it down to experience.

In terms of building a forge, look at some examples on here. A 55 Forge will get you going (plans on here) and you can move on to a brake drum forge when you need to step your game up, then look at building a proper forge.