When shaping lengths of round stock with a power hammer, how do you keep the far end from sagging?
Do you place a tool rest on the back side of the hammer.
Haven't worked any long pieces yet but I plan to.

Yes, put a rest on the far side at the same level as the bottom die. I've forged 10 ft rails in 18" heats this way without help. It helps to use tongs in your lead hand and a gloved hand in back. Be careful not to burn yourself - and don't ask me how I know that...LOL

http://www.iforgeiro.......... Use one of these before you take the iron out of the fire and your right hand will love you for it(assuming you're a righty). With your tongs in the other for supporting and transporting the bar to the hammer. Then you won't repeat HW's experience.... B) ..... A rest, yes.... :)

Good Morning,

I had a job of hammer texturing 140 - 3/4x3/4x10' solid bars for window security in a Motorcycle Shop. 3 1/2-4 foot heat at a time. We took a 3 foot piece of pipe on the far side of the dies to support the wimpy end. This stopped the chase of the far side and the dance between the dies. It took way less time to straighten them on the floor. 10 feet grew to just over 11 feet. Still took a long time to process. They still look good in the windows, almost don't see them.

my $.02

Neil Gustafson

Neil, did you use the pipe as a "sawhorse" to rest the bar on or did you have the inside of the pipe even with and pointing at the bottom die with the long stock inside the pipe so it was somewhat contained to keep it straight?

Good Morning,

I had a job of hammer texturing 140 - 3/4x3/4x10' solid bars for window security in a Motorcycle Shop. 3 1/2-4 foot heat at a time. We took a 3 foot piece of pipe on the far side of the dies to support the wimpy end. This stopped the chase of the far side and the dance between the dies. It took way less time to straighten them on the floor. 10 feet grew to just over 11 feet. Still took a long time to process. They still look good in the windows, almost don't see them.

my $.02

Neil Gustafson

What a good idea.

Most of the long length stuff I have forged has been over 50mm (2") square so that tends to need a very robust support, it would jam in a tube . I have a couple of pegs sticking up from a frame clamped around the bottom pallet to keep it centered on the tools.

As a general safety rule with long heavy stuff you should try and keep the centre of gravity your side of the anvil. I quite often cut things double length so I use one as a handle while forging the other.

If your are forging a long length always work outwards towards the end of the bar. As the bar grows you have more of it on your side. If you start at the tip for instance on a taper and double it in length you have a much longer lever on the wrong side of the anvil working against you by the time you get to the thick end. It is counter intuitive and the opposite from forging a short taper over the anvil.

"Most of the long length stuff I have forged has been over 50mm (2") square"

Yes please!

"Most of the long length stuff I have forged has been over 50mm (2") square"

Yes please!

:)

This is one of those times when you really must keep rotating your forging in the full circle. Do not just go backwards and forwards 90 degrees,as the hammer will kick the end up. If you forge 360 degrees (by that I mean hit the job, say 6 times, turn it 90 deg clockwise, hit it 6 times turn it 90 degrees clockwise, hit it 6 times turn it 90 degrees clockwise etc so as you are going in a full circle) the kicking up action should largely equalise its self out. We have sucessfully forged bars up to 6.500 metres long under our hammer by using a forging chain out the front and out the back as well. (a customer needed a shaft to be 6.5 metres long and could only buy bars 6 metres long in that grade, so we forged some more length into it), as stated though it pays to start in the middle and work out.

Phil

This is one of those times when you really must keep rotating your forging in the full circle. Do not just go backwards and forwards 90 degrees,as the hammer will kick the end up. If you forge 360 degrees (by that I mean hit the job, say 6 times, turn it 90 deg clockwise, hit it 6 times turn it 90 degrees clockwise, hit it 6 times turn it 90 degrees clockwise etc so as you are going in a full circle) the kicking up action should largely equalise its self out. We have sucessfully forged bars up to 6.500 metres long under our hammer by using a forging chain out the front and out the back as well. (a customer needed a shaft to be 6.5 metres long and could only buy bars 6 metres long in that grade, so we forged some more length into it), as stated though it pays to start in the middle and work out.
Phil

Yes good system especially if your pallets are not matched for position or if the edge radii are slightly different. I quite often turn it 180 deg if I have got a banana forming. Sometimes the weight of the curve trying to twist the bar is too much to hold even with a porter bar clamp.

I always turn anti clockwise though!.....I am on the right hand side of the hammer so I roll the bar anti clockwise towards the front of the hammer so my mate with the spacing block can push it back central on the pallets. If I forget and turn it the wrong way he has to lift the block over the top to hook it on to drag the bar back.

If what you are working with thin material, you can fold it where the forging is done. Doing this allows working on long thin projects. Straighten it out on the anvil.

Clockwise-anticlockwise it does'nt matter so long as you keep going the same way, just depends on which side your stopper pad is on or what ever else you have to stop your job from walking its self out from under the hammer. If we are doing a larger job we will tend to go anticlockwise as it is easier to pull down on the turning bars/horns than lift up, (that is when standing on the left hand side of the tongs ie the tongs are against your right leg))

Phil

Clockwise-anticlockwise it does'nt matter so long as you keep going the same way, just depends on which side your stopper pad is on or what ever else you have to stop your job from walking its self out from under the hammer. If we are doing a larger job we will tend to go anticlockwise as it is easier to pull down on the turning bars/horns than lift up, (that is when standing on the left hand side of the tongs ie the tongs are against your right leg))

Phil

Sorry Phil, I should have put a smiley face rather than an exclamation mark after my "anti clockwise" comment. :)

I know you knew that it did not matter which way you turn, but I thought it worth expanding your explanation for those that may have taken your "clockwise" description too literally. Now the biter is bit by you expanding on my explanation of the explanation! :) Are we all confused? Good, then we can carry on!

Now its got me idly wondering...Do all your hammers have the hand controls on the right hand side? I cannot remember having seen any with them on the left, steam hammers included. Though I am thinking mainly Massey. I suppose that would put the levers in the hammer driver's right hand. Have you ever seen a forge/hammer set up where the workpiece was not presented from the right side of the hammer? I am thinking of bar / shaft work by a team under clear space hammers rather than Double arch hammers and ring work I suppose.

Edited November 16, 201213 yr by blackersmith

You can work all the way around my 500lb. Bradley but it does not require a driver either. Still no pictures... <_<

You can work all the way around my 500lb. Bradley but it does not require a driver either. Still no pictures... <_<

Funnily enough as soon as I pressed "post" on post 13 I thought of the image of you forging your sculpture and you were presenting from the left. But I was actually thinking of hammers which have hand controls used by a team of smiths.

My 250kg Massey (not yet installed) for instance has a "J" shaped foot treadle and a hand control, my 150kg and 50kg Alldays have "U" shaped foot treadles and hand controls, all the hand levers and the "J" are on the right hand side.

On a few occasions I could have done with a hammer driver, after almost doing the splits to keep my foot on the treadle I ended up resting a plank on it and standing on that, effective but a trifle Heath Robinson! Talk about an analog remote control!

Edit 20.Nov (I have just had another look at your Aileron forging images and see that you employed a similar remote control there!)

Ah pictures, I did look some out to illustrate my theories but got sidetracked doing presentations for the French Conference in Provence. I will have another go. But don't hold your breath!

Edited November 20, 201213 yr by blackersmith

Moony tells me that when he has to perform remote forging with his seven he does the old rest a plank on the pedal with a brick at the other end, then stands on it to drive his hammer. Being able to drive with either foot helps too.

Phil

Dillon I have heard of pig iron but you are the first iron pig I have run across! :) This a new idea but I am envisioning a small table with an expanded metal top and a sloped front edge to support long work. The concept seems like it could be inexpensive and effective.