Weighing My Options.

[Hillbillysmith]

First off, I just want to say that I posted this in the Blacksmith's section, because I figured that it is the most looked-at and I would like all of the imput/advise I can get. I am a 17yr. old junior in High School and am currently taking welding in the local high school vocational school here in NW Ohio. I have been considering what I was going to do after I graduate and how it will affect my appending future. Well, here it is. I have narrowed my options down to either try and get a job placement throught my school with the iron-workers and moving on to pipe-fitters, boiler-makers, specialty welding, etc., or join the military and try to weld for them while further braudening my welding skills through the armed forces. I figure that I'll be getting free schooling and getting paid for it on top of serving my country to what extent (I am an only child, so I probably won't be seeing any active-duty which I do regret) that I can. The reason why I am asking everyone here is that I know alot of you men and women have been in the military in some way, shape, or form and would like some personal experience thought and/or opinions through what anyone else here is or has going or been through. The only reason that I am having a hard time deciding is that (and I'm going to be honest) I am overweight and not sure If I would be able to do all of the physically-demanding things that you have to do. Don't get me wrong, I'm healthy as a horse, and as strong as an ox, but a little too big for all of the push-ups, pull-ups, etc. I know that I can work on this duriong the summer, but I only have one more year left before I have to make this crucial choice that determines what the rest of my life will hold for me. I would love to be able to join the military, because the retirement benefits you get are unmatched, and the training you get is unsurpassed, but would like to start working right after high school so I could get a head start on the rest of my life. Plus, I do also know that there are other ways such as retirement programs, IRA accounts, Mutual Funds, stock market, etc. to make a living for my retirement now, rather than worrying about it later. I'm sorry that I've dragged on for so long, it's just that it's the most important decision of my life and would like as much insite as a can get. If you have any info, please, share it with me so I can deside as wisely as I can. Thank you for your time and am looking forward to any and all feedback.

Tony Turner
(Hillbillysmith)

[patrickrock]

If you can stand it. Go to college. That's my advice.

[Ed Thomas]

Tony: None of us know you and should not advise you on what to do with your life. Although I spent 20 years in the service, I've been out for 14 years and it changes a lot. However, here are some ways you can get more information on your options.

1) Try to visit a military base and talk to active duty men and women there. Recruiters are highly-trained salesmen who have recruiting quotas. That means not only numbers of people every month, but also the category, so they will push the current needs of the military as much as possible. The sailors, soldiers, airmen, and marines who are out doing the work can hopefully show you what life is like for them.

2) Try contacting locations and companies that have the sort of work you really enjoy doing, or want to do. Maybe you can ask them what they look for in an employee and ask them what you need to do in the remaining year to get a foot in the door.

I do have this advise: Lose the weight and keep it off. Many employers do not like to hire overweight people because they are a long-term health risk. It only gets harder as you get older. Our whole country is fat and getting fatter. Resist the trend.

When I was very young and about to get married, an older brother wrote to me and said: "I only have this one piece of advise: Ignore everybody's advise."

I usually do, and I have very seldom regretted going my own way.

[keykeeper]

Been there, done that Hillbilly.

After High School, I started college, which led to the field I now work in. Unfortunately, I never finished my degree, as the scheduling in my job and college classes didn't jive together. However, life has not been too bad after 12 years at the same employment.

My advice is pursue some type of skill or education first. If it takes the military to do that, then so be it. But nonetheless, obtain your education/training while you are young enough to handle the stresses of training/working/etc. Then, if later on down the road of life you feel the need to change employment, do so with happiness, knowing you have an education or skill to fall back on if it doesn't work out. Whatever you do, make sure you enjoy your work. If you enjoy what you do, the stress levels you encounter will be much lower.

Right now, I have no degree or skill to change over to, should the want or need arise, so I am behind if I have to change. Many times I've wished I would have joined an apprenticeship in a good trade.

Just my .02 worth, but the truth of the matter in my experience.

[Feukair]

I'll offer some of my experience...

If you do decide to go into the military get a guaranteed contract. A guaranteed contract means that the military will guarantee you a position in some certain field. They will only guarantee fields at a broad level, meaning they can/will guarantee that you will be a "aviation electrician" (what i did) but they wont guarantee which you would be working on of say... planes or jets or helicopters, just that you will be an electrician working on something or a part of something that goes in the air. If you're interested in metal working ask what type of guaranteed contracts they can offer in that field or related fields. Check every branch of the service, not just the one your friends are looking into.

If you DONT get a guaranteed contract then NO MATTER WHAT a recruiter tells you about how high your test scores are or how well you do on physical fitness tests there is NO guarantee that you won't get placed in some field you don't want to be in. Keeping that in mind however the military is not stupid, they do not waste talent if they can help it, if you've demonstrated in testing that you have skills they will want to use them of course... But... military job classification assignment works something like this... they have a fixed number of slots for positions they want to put people in, aviation electricians for the year 2008 for example, people with guaranteed contracts who will be out of basic training during that year get those slots first (they have to, they guaranteed it, if they can fit you in yet then you wait, that is called the delayed entry program, when i expressed interest i was told i would have to wait 11 months from the time i signed to the time i went in so that when i got out of basic training a slot would be open for me in the field i was guaranteed) after the guaranteed people the people who tested with higher aptitudes for that work are chosen and put in to those slots. If you are on an open contract when you come out of basic training and the slots you wished for are full then they are full, no matter how well you did on the tests, no matter how smart you are, if the slots are full then they are full, the military will not wait to use you at a later date just because you are smart. If they don't have to wait to use you, based on a guaranteed contract, they will put you in whatever other slots they have open so they can use you now.

I think the military can be a great experience, i'm not telling you to do it, decide for yourself. But if you do, why not try to guarantee the field you'll be working in. Getting a guaranteed contract usually means you have to sign up for more years than an open contract person, but 3 or 4 years spent in a field of your choice, in a type of work you'd like to continue when your military career is done, is much more valuable and worthwhile than 2 years as a rifleman or cook or security guard if you want to be a welder.

Of course make your own decision, just don't let a recruiter talk you into an open contract, they will try very hard, they get more "points" for bringing in open contracts than they do for guaranteed ones. But there's no draft right now, sign up on your terms not theirs.

Just sharing my experiences... There was a guy in basic training with my company, he bragged all the time about how high his test scores were and indeed they were the highest that had been through in a while, he was open contract and couldnt wait to see what interesting tech field the military would chose to use him in. We were all sitting in some bleachers the day they announced everyones name and military occupational speciality. I already knew the basic category of field that would be announced with my name. His name was announced and then the code for basic rifleman, he cried in front of everyone, and he cried all night that night. Not that being a basic rifleman is something bad, but it was the farthest thing from what he wanted to be.

Ask the recruiters about guaranteed contracts, thats all you have to do. You struggle to make the right decision what to do with your life, if the military is that decision, why let the military chose what to do with you when there are so many cool things to do in the military, pick something you'll like, not something they like.

Wow that took a long time to type... my 17 year old son got this same lecture from me about 6 months ago..... i'm a dad... when did that happen???

Lt

[cheftjcook]

Tony, Specific choices or advice like Ed Thomas said should not be sought or taken But rather thought thru on a very personal level by you and you alone.
That said, advice for the bigger picture from folks who have been there done that is usually the same and very very sound!

The basics: Figure out what will make you Happy doing day in day out. It doesnt seem as much like work when you enjoy doing it. BUT...Get your complete educational foundation for that chosen field, you will learn and grow with in that field, but get your education first. My own experience, I found it a tough struggle to go back to college after working and being on my own for 6 years, glad I did, but it's a challenge. So as for Education: "Get R' done"!

As for the weight issue, I have also, as many have struggled with weight until coming to grips with it. (as chef and love to eat!!!) What ever path you chose, Work it out now you will be much happier in the long run!

Best of luck with it Tony
Tim

[son_of_bluegrass]

If you're overweight you won't get into the military untill you loose the weight. If you can't pass the physical tests you won't be allowed to stay in. You only get the retirement if you serve 20 years or maybe if you're taken POW or sometimes if you get severly hurt and are discharged on a medical. The only child bit only means you are given the option of not deploying (maybe). If this all sound a bit negative, well maybe it is. You need to talk to recruiters (each branch you are interested in) and ASK QUESTIONS. Recruiters have to answer your questions truthfully but they don't have to volunteer any information. If you do join, READ THE CONTRACT.

I spent some time in the army and enjoyed it. wouldn't change that decision if I could.

ron

[pete46]

Tony!
Your body is your most important tool take care of it!
I'm a former marine; and am currently in the mississippi national guard.
The military can help you or hurt you[is this good advise or what]
college: the same thing!
It's what you put into it!
Military get a guaranteed contract!
College they are selling you an education, they will sell you whatever they can!
If you don't know what you want, they will have you repaying student loans for the rest of your life!
I guess what i'm trying to say:is this world will use you
you need to use it!
Don't forget honor, loyalty, courage & self control!
These traits are developed through mental toughness and life!
This country is the best; being a welder for uncle sam ain't no bad thing!
Good luck and god bless you!!!!!!!!!!!!:)

[Neal L]

I,m so inpressed to hear a younge person giving such serious thought to his future. I can't advise on the millitary (i never served). I will say get at least 4 years of college, one day that piece of paper will be the difference between gettin the job you want or not. I know, I have been passed over a couple of times because I only have a 2 year degree. Learn a trade also, there are a lot of college graduates that have trouble finding jobs. Hard work will get you where you want to be no mater what path you choose. You will have to work harder to move up the ladder if you don't have the degree.
Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!

[irnsrgn]

hillbilly, making decisions about what one is going to do with their lives is one of the hardest parts of growing up and learning to make decisions for yourself, you have to weigh all the options and have a long term goal in mind and then decide what route you are going to take to get there. Its nice to have someone else make a decision for you as you can cuss them for telling you wrong, but ultimately it was your decision to let them influence your decision and by then its too late to change things.

[ThomasPowers]

Education is something that can't be taken away from you---and training as a welder in the Army counts as education! OTOH what we think we want to do as a young person is not always what we want later. I got a degree and working in my field then got hit with a terrible downturn in the early 80's, then did a bunch of other stuff not related to my degree and finally got hired into a good job working for a once great company doing another unrelated type of work.

They paid for me to get a degree in their field---sort of---I had to pay books, parking and *TIME* it took me 10 years to get that other degree while working more than full time and with a young family and an old house. Just 2 years after I got that degree that company downsized by about 3/4 and I was out the door for that job; *But* I had a degree in that field and 15 years experience.

Made a big difference than just having 15 years experience.

My current job has a sunset provision, I wonder what I'll be doing next...

[primtechsmith]

Tony.

I am biased. I went to college and am also a school teacher...I thought for a long time that education only came from a classroom with books, and tests, and teachers standing in front of me. I am now of the opinion that education is all around us and can be found anywhere that one is willing to look. A very wise man once told me that "experience is a wonderful thing." As long as your decision leads you into something where you can experience and learn and come out on the other end wiser and ready for the next challenge than I say go for it.

Some people go their whole life and never can tell you how they got there. Military, college, trade apprenticeship...they are all honorable paths to walk and it just comes down to which one do you have the most heart to walk down.

Good Luck.
Peyton

[Hillbillysmith]

I don't want anyone to make the choice for me, I just want some incite on what different people did and how it worked out for them so I can get as much information as I can get so I am able to make my decision wisely. I never have expected to have someone make my choices for me. The only thing I ask for is more and more information that comes to me so I can make my life what I want it to be so I can finish molding myself into the person I think that I can be.

[JOHN PITTS]

Get Some Form Of Education In A Field You Are Interested In. And More Importantly Start Praying About Your Decision .... And Listen.

[Ed Thomas]

Tony: I do have another suggestion, then. Try to find an older person who is happily doing what you want to do. Someone who has high capabilities you would like to obtain, and has a lifestyle you admire. Then ask them how they got there and if they would do anything differently to get there.

The problem with asking here is that you really don't know who we are, and our advice may reflect our own desires, regrets, and goals. And we might be complete failures at what you want to do. The internet has some fine features; personal contact is not one of them.

I do get good information and help on the internet. But it is usually by asking pointed, specific questions. For instance, some questions you might have could be: "Has anyone here gotten their skills in welding in the military? How good did you find the training? Has it helped you in civilian life?" That way, the only people who should answer you are those who have specific experience with what you asked. And you can pretty much ignore the rest.

[cheftjcook]

Tony,
IMO... In order to make a good decision for your future (or any decision)you need to have a source of information or bases to make that decision. That said, May be you need to figure out what you enjoy and what you are good at. Right now, when your young is a great time to explore. The answers to these questions may only come through exposure to different fields/ trades. If your thinking some skilled trade. I know the local Vo-Tech High School by us offers valuable exploratory classes in a wide array of fields, You might have the same in your area. Students are go thru 4, 6 even 8,10 different pods, each being about 4-6 weeks. Just enough time and hands on training to get a feel for the Trade you were being taught. And at the very least you have a small nugget of knowledge tucked under your belt as well. The instructors are pros in there respective fields, both active & retired, and are a wealth of info to the inquiring mind like yourself. After going the the full course of perspective trades you now have a better feel for what you like and don't maybe even find a hidden talent or two.
Once you have a handle on that, they can also assist or direct you to a path of higher or more complete education in that field and specialties with in that field.
And I also think prayer works!!!
TIM

[FredW]

Hillbilly, do what you enjoy. This world is full people who go to work every day and dream about another life. Do what you want and the rest will come naturally.

Shoot the military or college do at least one thing if not an education. It presents an opportunity to meet people and to maybe change your mind about what yoou enjoy doing.

Fred

[Hillbillysmith]

I would just like to thank everyone for all of their great advise and the detail in what I should do differently about asking questions (Ed Thomas). I will do a little bit of research on both of the different paths that I have narrowed down to. And with the experiences that you people have told me about, it just puts that much more knowledge and undedrstanding to me and gets some more of the gears turning. Keep it comming and in the mean time, I will think up a list of more specific questions to ask and I will post them up here so I can get some more detailed advise.

Thank you.
Tony

[Ferrous Beuler]

Hillbilly, Being 17, in school is right where you want to be, good for you! I've seen too many aimless sorts fall by the wayside at this critical time in their lives and most of them havn't ammounted to much. Don't let yourself fall into that rut. Sounds like your doing just fine, on the path to continuing education. Stay with it. If you are considering enlisting in the military specifically for a spot in the metal trades then I highly recomend the U.S. Navy. Specifically the Seabees. I am not sure if you can go directly into the Seabees upon enlistment, you may have to have two or three years in the fleet under your belt before you can "shipover". If you are looking for challenges and education in the metal trades the Navy will give you more than you can immagine. When talking to recruiters bear one important thing in mind always- these guys are some mighty slick salesmen and they will promise you the moon and the stars. NOTHING MEANS DIDDLY UNLESS IT IS SPECIFIED IN WRITING IN YOUR ENLISTMENT CONTRACT. Remember that. Specifically what you want to see SPECIFIED IN WRITING on your contract is GAURANTEED M.O.S. ( military occupational specialty, your "job" ) Don't settle for only gauranteed schools because after that is complete, without a gauranteed M.O.S. you could very well find yourself doing something very different than what you had in mind. There are lots of people in the military doing things they had no intention of doing, I was one of them. I had only schools gauranteed when I signed up in '85. I wanted Marine aviation and that's what I got, aircraft maintenance, specifically helicopter flightline maintenance on UH1N Huey helicopters. I was assigned to a heavy lift squadron, HMH-463 at Kaneohe bay Hawaii equipt with CH53D helicopters, 14 of them and five hueys. I worked on the flightline everyday and qualified as a doorgunner. I was loving every minute of it all, life was grand. Then one day the announcement came that the hueys were being dropped from the squadron. Being that we were on an island (Oahu) and the Marine Corps budget being what it always is, it turned out that all personel of E-6 (staff seargent) and above would be reassigned elsewhere within there M.O.S. and all those below that rank would be reassigned elsewhere on the island at the convenience of the Marine Corps. Most of us did not have gauranteed M.O.S.'s so we all wound up at different places around Oahu IN OTHER JOBS. I was a lowly E-nothing Lance Corporal and wound up doing building maintenance at Pearl Harbor for the last year of my enlistment until finally getting orders to another squadron at Camp Pendleton California for the last few months before I got out. I think I most likely would have done another four year hitch but that experience, and seeing how very common that was in the Marines for people to be put where they didn't want to be soured me a bit. There is a saying in the Corps regarding this- U.S.M.C. stands for "You Signed the Xxxx Contract". Please don't get me wrong, I am very proud for the privilege of serving my country and the moral of the story here is GET IT GAURANTEED IN WRITING. When talking to recruiters I highly recomend having a vet with you. Good luck. Dan:D

[irnsrgn]

I recommend Seabees too, I got seabeas in bootcamp, went to "A" school and learned a lot, don't know how it is now, but Steeleworker had two designations, SWF for Fabricator, and SWE for Erector. Wouldn't trade the experience for anything. What I am able to do now is partly what I learned in the Seabees. My old Batallion, MCB 3 has earned the designation the Best of the Best for quite a few years in a row.

[tbrforge]

The military is a serious commitment. Unlike trying a job out, you can't quit if you don't like it without serious results.

Try votech, try college, try wleding, try lots of things and work hard at them and see what you like. While it is commendable to be so serious about your future, you've got a lot of time ahead to narrow your field, to find out what really floats your boat.

As to your weight, if you can focus the same seriousness that you are considering your future to changing you body to the best it can be, not some image that the media presents, you'll do fine. Get a good physical, ask the doctor, have your bodyfat calculated, eat the best you can.

And watch out for those recruiters, they are salesmen.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Ten Hammers]

Tony, good advice given here so far. I WILL agree that the personal mentor ( read in the flesh not internet ) is something you need. I joined the US NAVY at age 17 and spent 6 years (4 active duty). Was guaranteed Naval Aviation and recieved it. Priceless training. Trust few. READ your options in print. Life may later give you pause to wonder what happened but worry about that then. Many of us have had issues to effect us. Prayer is Paramount, yes. Smile all you can and get educated.

[blkbear]

Good question and some very good advice. There is a saying that goes something like "If you love what your are doing you will never work a day in your life".
I would agree wholeheartedly with everyone who advocates education. That is one thing no one can take away from you. This is what we have stressed with my daughter ever since she was a little girl - she is now 20. She has just finished her first year at university and what she was studying was not what she expected and she no longer wants to persue that avenue in education. She is off in another direction for next year. Remember you can always change your field of study or work if it turns out not to be what you expected. And you may have to change several times before you find the right fit - or you might find it on the first go. Believe me - you have lots of time to "find that one thing" - quote from the movie City Slickers.
Do what you like - or at this point in time what you think you like. Change if it is not what you thought it was going to be to something else. The knowledge you gained while discovering that it wasn't your thing is not wasted knowledge nor wasted time.

Brian

[Hillbillysmith]

I would just like to thank you all for all of the great advise and personal experiences that you have shared with me on what you have gone through along the way getting to where you are now. If I made anyone feel bad (hopefully I didn't) about past education or thinking about what you could have done different before, you have my sincere appologies. I didn't mean to try and stir up any old, bad memories, I just wanted information for my well being on my future, cause my parents didn't do very many smart choices and we struggled alot through the years. Yes, I learned from their mistakes, but I just didn't know where to start. Everyone here is stressing the importance on an education. I know the importance of an education and that is what I want to get is an education on the field that I am currently but I don't know whether or not to get it through the military, and get the best training that will be with me for the rest of my life and reap the benefits from that when I retire, of just try my hardest to pay for the education myself. But now, I think that I have a pretty good idea thanks to all of you. I know I have another year to finalise my choice, but with all of the info about the different choices, (college, military, etc.) I am able to make my choice more wisely now.

With great gratitude,
Tony Turner

[JAllcorn]

My opinion mirrors many stated here, paraphrasing what a man told me when I was very young.

"Get your education. It is the only thing that cannot be taken away from you."

The more you learn, the more options you have, in this life and the next.

James Allcorn
Paris, TX