P. Bedard Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Hey all. I had a few requests for spearheads, so it gave me the incentive I needed to finish a tool to help me form the sockets. However I cannot for the life of me, get the XXXXXX sockets to line up. They have that little gap at the bottom. And I can't seem to do anything to change that. Looking at period examples of spearheads, you do see this, however, you do see many of them that line up laser beam straight too! So, if anyone has any suggestions as to how I can get these things looking a bit neater, I'd love to hear them! Socket tool; Smaller spearhead (for a throwing spear); Two smaller ones and a longer one (Tall one is Viking era, the original is in the London museum) Thanks for looking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Cut them off a 1/4" from the bottom! (for real---not a joke.) A lot of the ones I've seen in European medieval history were lapped and forge welded (easier with real wrought iron) the ones that were not looked like they were lower grade and so they didn't care about the seam so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Yeah, trim them on the bottom and they are perfect, you don't think they didn't trim them back then? as for lining up the sockets, if you can get them straight, heat the very little bit between the blade and socket then twist it to line it up. Use a torch, keep the socket as cool as you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P. Bedard Posted June 16, 2012 Author Share Posted June 16, 2012 Cut them off a 1/4" from the bottom! (for real---not a joke.) A lot of the ones I've seen in European medieval history were lapped and forge welded (easier with real wrought iron) the ones that were not looked like they were lower grade and so they didn't care about the seam so much. The Medieval ones were very often forge welded it's true. I'm making replicas of Anglo Saxon and Viking age spear heads though. Those were very rarely welded (only two examples I can think of offhand and those were VERY high quality. Literally, Ferrari's of the Spearhead world at the time). But yes, I should start cutting them, just to make em look better. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I have had luck rolling up sockets largely freehand on the anvil horn. If a small mandrel is used, use it as an auxiliary tool for trueing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P. Bedard Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 Well after a good day's work, I have the following to show for it; Four spearheads; And three Angons; Now, let's hope the customers like them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsies11 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 great work! as said before: trim them up a bit at the bottom! you can easily do this with a either a chopsaw or a hack saw. and after you do so, place the socket part back into the forge. the reason behind this is the blackening on the surface helps to prevent rust. another thing you can do is after theyre made and trimmed to your liking, heat them up, doesnt have to be red hot but hot enough to melt wax, and then have a large block of bees wax to seal them with. it is period correct and it is the best preventer of rust ive found. dont buy beeswax from walmart or crazy crow, they are too high for this, instead go to your local farmers market, and anyone who has hand dipped beeswax candles or fresh honey, talk to them, they will usually sell, and generally give cheap prices per pound go on and buy impure wax. its alot cheaper and it doesnt have to be pure to use for this method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I get the "trash" wax from cappings or hive clean up and am happy to melt it in a pot of water a couple of times to clean it up for forge use. Smells nice too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P. Bedard Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 Thanks for the tips everyone. I have a family member that raises bees and can give me his scrap wax whenever I need it. He says it still has some pollen and even honey in it, but once it's melted into a block, that will be easily separated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Shears Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Pedro - nice work! I like and will use the idea of having the socket bick at roughly 45 degrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurogane Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Looks good, i havent made any spear tips but a few bodkins and ive overlapped the socket, and im looking for madrels to use, can i use your design? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I like the uneven natural edges of the sockets better than the stark cut off edges of trimmed sockets! I am with you on this! I can't see a lot of practical advantage to welding the sockets... and the difficulty factor and time/heat investment rises dramatically! In faux painting we would call this a "conceit" (a small figure panted as a sort of signature/brag feature in a corner somewhere). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Olivo Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 The bottoms I would think would be filed. A couple of strokes and your flat though it seems like extra work to an already expensive item (though that may be why it was done). I haven't thought to do this on any I have made yet though I think I will try it next time I make some. Though you might also cut it with a cold chisel while it is on a mandrel (probably a quick one made for that purpose) Hmm now you have me thinking. I might try a couple of things next time. By the way beautiful heads thus far. I would love to see a reference scale next to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Smith Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I'm gonna go out on a limb and say those are 2" floorboards in the pic, so the heads would be about 1-1.5" heads and about a foot long? Regardless, beautiful work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimenickel Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Hello if you want to make forgewelded sockets... the way i do it is take a piece of sheet iron the size of the socket and taper the ends - roll it round like a pipe and overlap the tapered parts and then forgeweld it over a mandrel, therefore now you have a pipe bout 1.5inch dia - now forge/narrow one end down to a taper... and bevel the end so when you weld it to the spear blade you don't see a weld joint make your spear blade with a tang ... tang looks like a short round plug - fit the socket to the blade tang/plug ... sand them clean of scale and fit them tight -forge weld An obvious short cut is if you have some 1.5 inch iron pipe ... ... then you'll only have to forgeweld the spear blade to the pipe to straighten... i tend to do as much over the anvil as i can then take a heat on the blade tang/socket junction.. clamp blade in vise, and insert a long bar into the socket ( make sure it fits socket tightly ) and manually align the bar with the blade as best the eye can tell ..... done !! Greg ps.. if you use socket size the same as shovel handle size... you can easily find shovel handles at hardware store for quick spear hafting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 FYI: the poster has not been back to I Forge Iron since he started this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymond Sauvage Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 The Medieval ones were very often forge welded it's true. I'm making replicas of Anglo Saxon and Viking age spear heads though. Those were very rarely welded (only two examples I can think of offhand and those were VERY high quality. Literally, Ferrari's of the Spearhead world at the time). But yes, I should start cutting them, just to make em look better. Thanks! I have seen lots of viking spear in my job as an archaeologist. The museum i work for has all prehistoric and medieval finds from the middle part of norway, and I recently worked with the finds catalouge. My guess our collections contain 800-1000 viking era spearheads (along with 800 swords and 1200 axes). Most spearheads have forgewelded sockets. Maybe 5-10 % have none-forgewelded sockets, mainly throwing spears and simpler types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulKrzysz Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Raymond I have a question to you about double bit axes. Yesterday I went to the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto and saw several bronze double bit axes. about 4 with eyes (holes for handles) and 1 without. The ones with eyes where in the Hellenic exhibit and the one without I believe was in the Egyptian. These where smaller axes, what we would consider hatchets. Would these axes be used for war or were they woodworking tools? Do you fins any example in the Viking find you have seen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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