How small can I go?

[Chris Jones]

Okay, I'm looking for an anvil, some minor problems:

1. The wife doesn't want me to get one
2. I have limited space to store it.
3. I have limited funds

So I am looking at getting a smallone to start with, i have seen some about the 5Kg (11lb) weight, which seems very small compared to the 55Kg ones I have used on my courses, but apart from obviously the size of the top and bick what negatives are there in getting a small anvil?

I assume the weight is key to it's capability, but am i going to be hugely limited by a small anvil if all i am doing to start with is hand tools or similar? If so how big do i need to go before I reach a usable size, but something i can hide from the wife without too much effort..;)

Thanks

Chris

[greensngravy]

Try going with a Railroad Rail - whatever size you can find. Good steel and cheap for banging on.

[Ridgewayforge]

A small one will require more effort to use- there is less mass under you hammer blows. But if you want and can put the extra effort, go ahead and get an anvil- the shape is invaluable! I'd look for a 25lb or 30 lb minimum, that's not too large (dumbells can work, too!)

[AndersMJ]

I guess point no. 3 is a product of point no. 1?? ;)

My anvil is not that heavy but I have a fairly heavy stump under it and it's pinned down to it with steel bands so it cannot move whatever I do to it. Physically it should give it more mass without actually doing it.

[Chris Jones]

Okay, so if i can get a good shape and attach it to something else heavy then i am probably halfway there.

Thanks all

[Ridgewayforge]

That sounds about right! Anything you can get, even a plate of steel will work, but I favor the anvil shape becuase it gives a few more options, especially the horn.

[pete46]

Trade wife for large anvil.
PRIORITIES MAN !

[Randy]

Where do you live? Maybe you can join a local group and use a local shop?

[K. Bryan Morgan]

I made this axe, with Jake P. on a 25 pound anvil. It is totally possible to get good results from a small anvil. Sometimes you just have to make do. The forge was an old metal drawer from a desk. Our airsupply was a cheap shop vac. with a dimmer switch for control and we quenched in the snow. The shop was put together with scrap wood and we had minimal tools. Hammers, tongs and a cold chisel. Is it the best axe in the world? Of course not. But it does go to show how much can be done with minimal equipment.

[Rich Hale]

Lets think abouit the big picture: If youi owning an anvil is a marital issue then it is going to grow as an issue if a few things happen.You buy one. Yoiu get something to put it on. You may wish to have something to heat material on. That will requre fuel. You may wish to hold onto material with somthing, You may even wish to own a hammer. Methinks you may really be bettor off trying to work out a solution to the issues rather than trying to sneak in with things she does not wish you to have.Rqndy suggested getting involved with a local group..That may be a really good way for you to do something you wish and not offend anyone. I would discuss this with her and really try to keep an open mind. There may be another issue that needs resolved.

[Lassen Forge]

My suggestion would be to get your wife interested in pounding hot iron. You've saved the marriage (as Rich alluded to above) and I bet if done right she would go from antagonist to protagonist!

[Jacques]

Start making jewellery. It doesn't take as much space, it will please the wife and you can upscale a lot of the skills and tooling to blacksmithing later.

And the jewellers anvils are really cute. But starting off by hiding it is not a good idea.

[Chris Jones]

The hiding a forge was a bit of humour really - hence the ;) - I live in a semi-detached house with a garden 5m long....not really much chance of hiding anything let alone a forge.

the size is the issue mainly as it is something that would either have to be moved to a different location to be used - there is no local group but I have had offers of places to use - or it will need to be stored in the shed when i am not using it.

Thanks for the ideas though.

Chris

[Dan P.]

If you can only get something small, I would recommend that it be a stump rather than anvil shaped. Even a block of mild steel.

[Bentiron1946]

I like Jacques suggestion a lot. My wife wasn't very much interested in my smithing and foundry activities when we first married but after making her some very beautiful and useful items from these activities she eventually came around. I could not do them around the children when they were young, like the time my five year old ask if I could make a spear with the fire, anvil and hammer and I said "Sure" and then my beloved asked me what I had for brains. This wasn't one of my better decisions let me tell you having a five year old throwing a spear around the back yard when the wife got home from work. Things got better though when I started making her beautiful jewelry that her coworkers were envious of, that went well. If you want to have her on your side of this then you need to win her over to it not conquer by force or sneaking around the place to do your forging. It will just make her think you a child about it.
Now if you are just going to be doing small cross section steel, 1/4" to a max of 1/2" then you can get a short section of rail and make an anvil or you can get about a 3' to 4' section and stand it on end and use that as and anvil for working bigger stock. Knife makers use it this way to have more mass under the hot steel. Look up a fellow named Larry Zoller and make his 5 gallon bucket forge that runs on propane and then you don't need to worry about smoke from coal or charcoal. But first things first get the wife to see you need to have the anvil and forge, with out her blessing you are fighting a loosing battle my friend. Otherwise like has been suggested you need to trade your wife for a good anvil. There is a blacksmith here in Arizona that did just that after fighting his wife for many years about being a smith. She didn't like the way he smelled, his rough hands, his muscled right arm, so they divorced and in a short time he found a woman who loved ALL those things about him and was even willing to go on the road with him and run his booth while he made more wares to sell.

[Private Entrance]

Portability shouldn't be a problem in and of itself. I have to move my stuff in and out of the garage when ever I want to do anything - anvil, forge, coal, coke, quench buckets, etc. I'd love to have a shed where I could keep the tools and other supplies and just roll the anvil and forge out to start work. As it is, I do all my work in a space about 2.5m x 2.5m square. Sounds luxurious having a 5m x 5m garden to work in.

And like K. Bryan said, you can get a lot done without spending a lot of money. My forge, which I am particularly proud of :D, was built from scrap, a brake drum, hairdryer, and a bit of pipe. Cost me about $35 (£20-ish?) and works like a champ.

[Ted T]

I do not understand that you have to hide it from your wife.
If you have to hide what you do from your wife, I would forget doing it!

It sounds like you need to get more experence with someone else and their tools, and the answer will be clear to you.
Then you will know what your capabilities, interests, and priorities really are, and if you want to invest money and time in the craft.

The blacksmithing process is not hid easy.
Hammering is quite noisey.
The smell of "products of combustion" is also quite telling, along with many other things that require some trade-off to do the craft.
If you are serious about the idea that your going to do some blacksmithing, do it right from the begining, tell your wife you are going to buy an anvil.
Then buy an anvil or what ever you decide to do.
If you have to work another job to save the money to start out right, so be it! Many of us have.

A quick start is not always a good start!
I wish you the very best.

[pete46]

When wives don't like husbands w/ rough hands ,smelly clothes and dirt.
THEY SHOULD GET A GIRLFRIEND !
sorry been there done that & it still stings! :angry:

[K. Bryan Morgan]

I must be the luckiest man on earth. My fiancee pushes me out into the shop. Knows I want to do this craft to the best of my ability and encourages me to do so. Just remember, "Happy wife, happy life."

[Chris Jones]

And I was after advice on anvils - I got marriage counselling as an extra.

Seriously guys my wife has no issue with my doing blacksmithing (in fact she's the one who suggested it as a hobby) she just isn't hugely up for me turning the garden into a forge..hence the reason for a small/light one that can be packed away when not in use...which will meet both of our needs - mine for an anvil and hers for a garden without an anvil as the centrepiece 24/7.

[Bigred1o1]

in that case a you dont need small just portable an anvil and stand that you can move with a dolly or pick up and put back together would be fine for you a a 50 to 100lb anvil can still be very nice i have a portable 118lb anvil i take to hammer ins that has a wooden block that a routed out the footprint of the anvil into so i can socket the anvil in with some rubber tubing as spacers to lock it into place and cut down on the ringing not that bad to move and set up

[Ted T]

I stand corrected on my view of what you were saying in your post now.
Thank you for clarifying more clearly of about what your needs are.
Just so you know I was not being cynical about including the wife issue in my response.
I was only responding to what you had posted.

That being said; you can enjoy the craft of blacksmithing in a very limited footprint of space.
I still put wheels on everything that I can, or make it portable in some fashion.
That way I can adjust what space is available to use for what I am doing.
You might call it the “Accordion Affect”. It makes a small space highly usable.

About 40 years ago, I had a small 8 ft. x 8 ft. tin shed that I used to house everything I needed to use for basic blacksmithing and light welding.
The only thing that set out in the weather was a steel work table.

A person can do a lot of work by using a Farriers Anvil (mine is a 90 pounder) that is easy to handle or store.
There is no question that you can use a Railroad Track (vertical in a bucket of sand) to get started if that is all you can acquire at the present time.

As you study the information that is found on this site you will be empowered with many options.
I wish you the very best!

[Bentiron1946]

I have a 25 pound 6" round steel drop from the scrap yard that works pretty good for doing small stuff, better than those ASO from Harbor Freight and other outlets and I think it was around twenty-five cents a pound. No, it isn't hardened like a cast steel anvil but it sure is nice for use on the old work bench and better than little flat surface on the back of the vise. There are lots of inventive ways to make use of largeish block of steel for an anvil without spending much money. Take a look at Brian Brazeal's plain block of steel he uses for an anvil, not big at all but also look at the great work he turns out on it.

[philip in china]

Don't get too hung up on getting an anvil. As said a piece of rail on end is fine. Provided it is bigger than the face of your hammer then you are OK. Simplest stand is just cast it in an old 25 litre paint can full of concrete. When I made bases like that I happened to have quite a lot of broken castings so I put those into the cement mix which made it even heavier. The beauty then is you can just roll it on edge to get it out of the way when you finish.

I have just done something similar with a holder for my bluebird tools anvil stakes. It is amazing just how much you can get done even on one of those. If ever I get chance I suppose I ought to learn how to post photos then I could show you!

[Pault17]

Philip, nice to see you still around. haven't seen your name up in a while.

Chris, I have a small anvil to begin with, but for beating on, I have a small block of through-hardened D2 that a machinist gave me a while back. It was a mistake in their shop - they make hydraulic pump bodies for large earth-moving equipment and such. The block is about 9" x 9" x 5.5" thick with two large 2+" holes through the face. bad thing is sharp edges around the holes. nice thing is it has multiple 5/8" tapped holes that are tapped flat to the bottoms on four faces. Oh, and my friend says that the whole block is hardened and tempered to 58-61 RC all the way through

The block weighs about 78 lbs without anything bolted on. doesn't look in the least like an anvil, but for most light work there is no trouble working with it.