making rings

[ramsies11]

i have a welding business and i am planning on making topiaries (like those new cone shaped ones except up side down) and the bottom piece is a ring. im using an old 2ft diameter brake drum and i am trying to form a ring around the drum using 3/8" hot roll steel. my issue is that the last 3 rings i tried, i ended up having to scrap because they had kinks and straight parts in them. i need a way to make them all uniform in size and make them all perfectly circular. i would like to keep using the drum because it already has a channel in it that i can use to seat the steel when i bend it, i just dont know how to do it correctly at the moment.

any ideas?

i was also thinking on maybe buying a small length of that pipe thats in the under part of the road, the one that kinda spirals up. i was thinking on buying it and just running my length of rod around and around it untill i basically made a spring, and then use bolt cutters to cut off my rings. this is only an idea at the moment.

ideas? questions? comments? concerns?

anything helps. ram.

[pkrankow]

Get a ring roller and roll them cold.

Phil

[Naz]

Are you bending hot or cold ?
3/8" rod bends cold quite easily on a 2 foot diameter.
Cut a longer piece than you need and go around the drum (Jig) let's say 1 1/2 turns.
Of course there will be spring back and your ring will be a bit larger than 2 foot diameter, if this is an issue maybe you can find something smaller to use as a jig or arrange the job to fit with a larger diameter ring.

Hope this helps, good luck !

Naz

[beth]

make suer you have a heat that goes past the piece you are trying to bend, and only bend the nice hot bit. the length will have colder sections either end, dont try to shape those till next heat. SO heat a longest section that you can evenly to get an even curve. also if you weld your hoop shut, you can heat sections of it that look kinked and get them round on your former, but bear in mind it will be bigger once it has true circular shape.

[Glenn]

i am trying to form a ring around the drum using 3/8" hot roll steel. The last 3 rings had kinks and straight parts in them.

You have not provided enough information, Is that 3/8 round, 3/8 square, 3/8 by something flat bar, or 3/8 by what? What diameter ring is needed, and is that ID or OD? If you are using flatbar are you bending it the easy way or the hard way?

Straighten out the old ring and reuse the metal to make a better ring.

Photos of what you have done, how it was done, and the results would be most helpful.

Look up and research a tool called a bending fork and then buy or make one, two, or how many you need for the job at hand.

[Larry H]

bending fork is the way to go

[ramsies11]

its 3/8" hot roll, outside diamiter, rd stock. i need a basic ring that i can weld the ends together on. im bending it cold, to heat and bend would make my topiary prices go through the roof because of labor costs. i have the brake drum, ive set it in vice and used it on half circles easily with 1/2" rd for my shepards hooks. but now i have no idea what im doing wrong here. and im afraid ill end up spending a fortune to make a fortune.

naz: ill definatly have to try the thing on cutting the stock 1.5 times more than what i need. it sounds like itll work.

phil: ill have to look up somthing on a ring roller, it soulds perfect. lol

[CBrann]

I was going to suggest a bending fork.... but thought that was to.... simple... wrong in application.... but I agree, an easy way to go fix bends that arent quite right....

[beth]

although less easy for someone with a novice eye to make entire ring on... use the forks to fix the kinks.

[MOblacksmith0530]

There is a little lack of info here as said before. Cold or hot would make a big difference. if you are doing it cold and it is new stock the kinks are probably from uneven pressure when wrapping the material. If you are doing it how it is most likely uneven heat as Beth says. I have make a couple of jigs over the years for rolling rings for the ABANA type ring projects bending 1/4 by1 the hard way and even heat and good control of the stock on the jig are very important.
If you are using round hot rolled steel cold around the form use a piece of pipe that will easily slip over the rod maybe 3/4 or 1 inch black iron a couple of feet long. as you wrap it around the form you can slide the pipe along to keep and even amount of pressure and keep the distance of the pressure point relatively consistent along the length in refference to the drum. Also there will be a fair amount of spring back if you are doing it cold so your form will need to be smaller than the finished size.

[JNewman]

Two ways to go at this, the building your forging skills way or the making money way.

For the make money way, find a shop with a ring roller and take them a couple of full length bars pay them to roll the bars into the spiral with the diameters you need. Cut them apart weld and weld them up. Do the math ahead of time to calculate how much metal you will need for the various rings so you will need more bars for the bigger rings. Keep in mind that you will have a flat on each end of the bar which you will cut off and throw away. Doing the material for 1 or two of these will likely cost the same as doing 10-20 so make sure you bring enough metal. Cash is king!!!

To forge these one at a time you want to calculate the length of the bar needed for one ring Cut it , then bend the ends first hot and then bend the bar around the form. Heat any high spots and tap gently into the form to true them up. Using a flatter here between your hammer and the steel will help prevent hammer marks.

Keep in mind you are competing with low wage chinese labour in making these. One way to compete is to make a higher quality product and charge much more. Make them from heavier stock, forge the bars all over, do much nicer welds, don't weld fasten them with mortice and tenon joints or rivets, add ornamentation such as scrolls. It will take time to build the skills to be able to produce a higher quality product.

[steveh]

Try doing them cold using a swage block.I make ornamental grass holders,rings with a couple of legs welded on.I use 1/2'' round and hammer it cold,I find it is faster for me than doing hot.

[ironwolfforgeca]

MAKE A RING ROLLER TOOL if you need production !-- easy tool to make - cut a circle out of plate the ID size - stock thichness
you need ring to be - drill center hold in + holes to bolt down circle to weld table or jib bottom plate witch is bigger than circle
make a FB handle have bolt @ end that gos into center hole of circle now put stock next to circle find a good roller bearing
drill bolt hole for it install on handle now you can rotate 360 degs / TO roll ring you just need a pin to hold the end of the ring in
place to roll - you will need to know the right leanth of stock to roll + you mite also have to make a jig to hold ring closed
to weld - this set up works well jigs / circle can be made out of wood depending ? this is just like a deco bender set up
made right if you need another ring size then make circle plate for it re-adjust bearing placement and go :D
you roll about anything as long as you're circle / die is right for the job

[Ten Hammers]

Do you have a good solid leg vise?

If so, cut your stock (3/8 hr round) to 3 times the diameter + 4 times the thickness ( this case 12/8 or 1 1/2 longer). Open your leg vise about an inch. Feed the stock in from the top. Get a good comfortable footing. Start roughly 2" from the end. Pull the stock to you gently (obviously this is cold stock). Continue to feed the stock DOWN and about an inch at a time pulling the same and feeding the same. You will run out of handle. Switch ends and do the same till the ends meet. Take to the anvil and either tap the inside or outside to true up a bit (over the face outside of the ring makes it bigger, inside on the step makes it smaller). Match the ends and tack. Leave a crack to fill. If happy with the alignment, weld the joint proud (meaning leave a bit sticking out). Grind or hotfile this to match the stock diameter. Make no sharp blows on the ring now, just taps to true it. I have made a ton of rings ( start with 36" + 1 1/2" and end up 12" ring ) in this manner. I have a brake drum from a duece and a half that is just the right size for truing this size up. You may not have this in your shop.


I have no ring roller. I have made miles of smaller rings hot, wrapping them on pipe or shop made fixtures forged to right size. Wrap hot ( even heat ) and go past on the ends. Place this in the vise and hacksaw through the bundle (wrapped like a spring). Get the individual rings in the vise and tap them straight (smaller stuff like #9 wire or 3/16 rod will straighten with tongs or pliers).

If you expect to make larger rings in production fashion, all the same you will indeed make or buy a roller to make life nice. It can be done with time and skill otherwise.

good luck.

[ramsies11]

everyone: i do plan on buying a ring roller after i sell a new set of my shepards hooks, i have about 200dollars worth of hooks ready to be welded, and a ring roller will help me make the hooks more uniform also. i was wondering if anyone had a suggestion on where i could buy one of these.
ten: im using a very very sturdy screw vice.