iron quake Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Is there any reason for not forging some things cold, assuming the following; You have the force available to do this i.e. 100lb hammer, Wear on the tools is not an issue either because they are much harder and tougher than the mild steel being forged ,or replacing them is a non issue. The amount of material be moved is small and there aren’t quality issues like cold shunts, the appearance is as good or better than the look when forged hot. There are a number of positive reasons for doing this that are obvious, to people on this forum, so I won’t bother listing them. I’m thinking of things like pattern embossing along the length of bars as an example. Your thoughts on this please…. And no I’m not worried about peeing the bed for hammering metal cold! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerrystagmer Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Pattern embossing on bars is a roll forming operation and is often done cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I've often broken corners on sq bar stock cold and some light texture too, but I'm probly goin' to heck anyway. If it does no harm to the tooling, then no foul. Cold bar in a 100lb'er can give you a nasty jolt if you're not carefull..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Depending on the size of stock, I would be more worried about getting my body parts hurt, they are not replaceable. My rule of thumb is this, if I can put it in a vise and bend it easily by hand then it shoudn't hurt me too bad if it kicks as long as I can hang on to it. If it jerks it out of my grip all bets are off. Please be careful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I've textured and chamfered a fair bit of stock cold under a power hammer. It's doable but harder on the body because of the extra shock and vibration. It's just not fun. For pattern embossing (sinking a punch into your stock?) I'd expect a fairly faint impression when compared to the same technique done hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 What others have said. You might want to use stands to ensure your stock is flat on the dies which helps cut down on shock and may mean you don't have to hold as tightly. A light blow to ensure the stock is flat on the dies is good practice when working on heavy stock and could be used here as well. I sometimes use tongs just to lessen shock to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Most blacksmiths don't think about cold forming it's something an ironworker would do! Said somewhat tounge in cheek--if you have the right machinery a lot of what was traditionally done hot can be done cold just think of punching as an example. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Most blacksmiths don't think about cold forming it's something an ironworker would do! Said somewhat tounge in cheek--if you have the right machinery a lot of what was traditionally done hot can be done cold just think of punching as an example. Ian On the other side of the coin I've done a bit of hot punching with the ironworker. That is remove the lower die and replace it with a thickish plate say 1'' and a stop so's not to go more than 2/3 through plus a water blow gun to chill it between heats. I don't use these punches for cold work anymore as the hardness still gets compromised, better to use old ones for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 @macbruce, sounds interesting!......why? how? what for? I have a large machime it will punch 32mm(1"1/4) in 16mm(3/4") plate cold. I always want to learn new "tricks" so please indulge me. Thanks in antisipation Ian @iq, sorry to hijack the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iron quake Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 I want to make furniture; not gates, railing, car parts, sculptures, knifes or tools. Whatever it takes to get the job done most efficiently and safely within my limited budget is all I’m after. I’m interest in making money at this along with creating something useful. Thank you all for your input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I want to make furniture; not gates, railing, car parts, sculptures, knifes or tools. Whatever it takes to get the job done most efficiently and safely within my limited budget is all I’m after. I’m interest in making money at this along with creating something useful. Thank you all for your input. If you are interested in making money its more important to learn about book keeping and proper bidding. Working hot or cold is not important to the bottom line if the job is bid correctly. I often find if the job was done cold to emulate forged work it looks like 1000 other things that are made by the truck load for mass consumption. Also the machines used to fab iron cold are just as dangerous if not more so than a forge. I have received my worse injuries from hand held grinders over the years. The worst things that ever happened to me at the forge were a few minor burns. Twisting machines, rollers and iron workers are not cheap but they are productive most fab shops have invested 10's of thousands of dollars in machinery. You average blacksmith could get a good used power hammer, anvil and a forge for a 10 to 5 thousand. If you are talking about getting by with less than that, then money may be illusive. Its cut and paste from catalogs. Those guys are a dime a dozen they go in and out of business with regularity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yetti Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 As an example I tryed to bend a large peice cold on our iron worker (65 ton) it was not kind to it as the grain in the cold rolled steel failed while bending a 90* corner because of its thickness. had I warmed it up first it would have been fine. myself I do tons of work on thin sheet cold. I tend to just soften a curve and make formations for peices to welded later. one thing its handy for is tubing. you can crush tubing in a die for a corner or using a press that other wise would be cut and ground to fit. by folding it under you save tons of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Hello Iron Quake, Keep in mind that not all steels will work cold and have good results. In some cases warm forging will get the job done about 700 to 900 degrees F, with little scaling. In some cases you might have anneal the work before forging, this is case with cold rolled steel. Depend on your end product you can us header steel, this material will work cold with little problems. Hope this helps. Jim Riddle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 @macbruce, sounds interesting!......why? how? what for? As I said in the '' why blacksmith by hand'' thread, ''there wouldn't be any striking in my shop if it weren't for ph's and presses'' That's not the only reason though. At the time I was doing this alot we were punching 3/4 sq holes in maybe 3/4 x 2'' flat in longish pieces maybe 6-8' and there were 100s of em to do......Call it lazy if you like but heating each hole area with a torch or forge then going to the anvil and striking the holes seemed like drudgery on an epic scale to me. One heat with the torch and each one was done in 5 min. The other important point is you can't punch a 3/4 hole through 1'' without wrecking your dies on an ironworker unless it is hot. Hot punching will increase the capability of ironworkers, just have a water spray on hand to cool imediateatly after each cycle. This particular job I wasn't using a bottom die cause I wanted the swelling at each joint but it works either way........Sorry for the HJ.... :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r smith Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 This particular job I wasn't using a bottom die cause I wanted the swelling at each joint but it works either way........:D macbruce, Did you use flat bottom punch or more of a chisel shape to slit and drift in one op to get a nice sideways swelling joint. Or am I missing something? smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 @macbruce, thanks for the reply, we use a press (ecentric) in a similar feshion. Thanks again, Sorry for HJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 macbruce, Did you use flat bottom punch or more of a chisel shape to slit and drift in one op to get a nice sideways swelling joint. Or am I missing something? smith macbruce, Did you use flat bottom punch or more of a chisel shape to slit and drift in one op to get a nice sideways swelling joint. Or am I missing something? smith Flat punch. Plenty of holes are done w/o slitting and drifting........plunge 1/2 + through with the punch, then work the other side and a little slug pops out if you're on the money, if not, it's a pain but no biggie to deal with. You won't get as big a swell this way but enough to please the eye.....and no I didn't upset each one, a little caving wasn't an issue on this job...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOblacksmith0530 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 In my opinion the safety issue the most important. I have done quite a bit of cold work but usually it is under the treadle hammer or more recently under the fly press. The slow movement and excelent power of the fly press make it perfect for this kind of thing. I have made a lot of tooling just for edge decorationon on various sizes of bar from 3/8 to 1.5 inches. I have done some cold bending on the fly press as well. I have bent 1/4 by 1" the hard way into 7 inch ID rings on the fly press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Ring rolling is usually done cold in comercial shops! All our embossing is done cold in a Hebo or Hebei(chinese version) machine. I have also purpose built machines to roll rings, patern press and twist -all for cold work. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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