TomN Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 I'm hoping to fire up my forge tomorrow for the first time. I'm hoping to try and make a few things, hopefully to give people for xmas. I was hoping to make a few little bits and treat them to preserve them a bit. I've got some vegetable oil to use. I'm trying to remember the process of treating the steel with it, from my beginners course I did ages ago. As far as I can remember it was a case of warm the still up in the flames till it was just too hot to touch and then rub some vegetable oil over it with a brush. (I can't remember the brush type). Any general tips on making bottle openers, or bookmarks would be appreciated. I was also wondering that if you treated a piece of steel with vegetable oil, and I then lightly ground the surface off with an angle grinder and flap wheel, would it still be protecting in any way? Just thinking that the bookmark would look better a bit shiny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dablacksmith Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 instead of vegtable oil (which i only use on items that touch food) i would get some clear paint or use paste wax ..if you shine up a piece the vegtable oil will be removed.i would apply any finish after all other work is done...good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Here in the Colonies, we have stores that sell cheap olive oil which I use to finish some things. Take the forge scale off and clean up all you wish. Shop towel soaked in oil ( not dripping ) wipes the piece cold. Hold in the fire ( which I use charcoal for this but gas works) until the piece starts to flash or just before. wipe clean with clean towel. Experimentation will be your teacher. Works great for me. BTW vegetable cooking oil works fine as well. So does used crankcase oil. Don't be breathing any of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzonoqua Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 different veg oils will give differing results, i have not had great success with "veg oil" as in rapeseed oil which is what you would buy in the supermarket here. Boiled linseed oil works well though, or plain old linseed oil. I used to use a mixture of tannic acid, linseed oil and meths or turpentine, brush on hot, but tbh lately i've just used some plain old briwax brushed on warm.... (not quite as traditional, but very effective as a protective coating) whatever you use, use a natural bristle brush, as the nylon, acrylic or man made ones will just shrivel up or burn in the heat. the natural one will curl up if too hot but won't burn away like the synthetic ones. If it needs to be food safe, use veg oil - linseed, olive, or whatever foodsafe oil you may use, or beeswax, the briwax suggestion is for stuff that isn't going to be in contact with food etc as it's mostly carnuba wax plus carriers like toulene which are kinda nasty... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Hi Tom, Like Colleen said natural bristle brush, or cotton cloth, or even paper, the hotter you get it the darker the finish, too hot and it goes all 'claggy'' (technical term) and you'll have to start again. If you want a bright finish then polish to requirement, and use a clear lacquer, the ones you get in an aerosol for cars with a metallic paint finish are fine, You can get clear lacquers in gloss, matt or satin finish and they dry pretty quick too Search this site for bottleopeners etc there are plenty on here. Good luck and enjoy your maiden forge, will be looking for pics and a report on your first weekends work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomN Posted December 3, 2011 Author Share Posted December 3, 2011 Thank you Coleen and John. I will be taking the wife as my official photographer for the day. I will indeed bring back a few pictures! Next weekend could be a quite busy weekend. Going to order a load of steel and get cracking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkunkler Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 If it needs to be food safe, use veg oil - linseed, olive, or whatever foodsafe oil you may use, or beeswax, the briwax suggestion is for stuff that isn't going to be in contact with food etc as it's mostly carnuba wax plus carriers like toulene which are kinda nasty... I just want to clarify what Colleen said. Although pure linseed oil is ok, most oil that is labeled as "boiled linseed oil" contains solvents and dryers that make it toxic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 This would be why I use Olive oil. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzonoqua Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Yes, absolutely, check the ingredients before applying anything!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryLWatson Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 An instructor in a blacksmith class I took once upon a time showed us how to impart a deep black finish to metal by heating it to a black heat and dipping it rapidly in a bucket of used motor oil, then wiping the oil off quickly with a clean cloth and buffing the piece. Unfortunately, there is a risk of fire so it is best to have a person standing by with a fire extinguisher or a flat surface large enough to cover the top of the container the oil is in to smother the fire...if there is one. We didn't experience a fire during the demonstration but there was a lot of heavy smoke. Still, the finish was beautiful and apparently quite durable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son_of_bluegrass Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I just want to clarify what Colleen said. Although pure linseed oil is ok, most oil that is labeled as "boiled linseed oil" contains solvents and dryers that make it toxic. Once fully cured all finished available in the U.S. are considered food safe. This may or may not still be true if sufficient heat is applied and the heat can allow for some reactions that wouldn't normally happen at room temperature. The solvents evaporate and the dryers used today are suppose to be safe. This may not apply outside of the U.S. or if you find a really old can of finish. ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomN Posted December 4, 2011 Author Share Posted December 4, 2011 Well that day didn't go as planned. I got to the workshop with the wife and finished off making my very rudimentary stand for my vice, then attached the vice to it. Setup and then tried to get the forge going. This is where the problems started. The wind got up a bit and it was a nightmare to get the kindling going. When I finally got that going, I covered it with coke and used my hairdrier, as a blower to get it fired up a bit. The next 10 minutes were spend with getting smoke in my eyes. The coke sounded like it was warming up nicely. There were a few cracks and a lot of smoke and we got a few flames up few the coke. My wife informs me this happened, I was knelt down, basically crying because of the smoke. Unfortunately the hairdrier was very cheap and kept konking out when it overheated, so I couldn't get the coke hot enough. So sadly I couldn't do any forging. I really need to get a better forge blower! The wife enjoyed it though and took a few photo's, and I will try and put them up tomorrow. Thanks for all the information. It is much appreciated. I have an idea for my bookmark now and will need a clear glaze to put on it. Can anyone advise me as to what would work please? Please bear in mind that i'm in the UK as well. Also any advice on getting the forge going would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K. Bryan Morgan Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I use a shop vac called a buckethead. It's cheap, $20, and sits on top of a plastic, standard 5 gallon bucket. Along with that I used an inexpensive dimmer switch for control. It is a simple and well working system. Hope this helps.http://www.iforgeiron.com/gallery/image/34905-002-copy/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Hi Tom, Clear acrylic lacquer from Halfords (Simonize brand in aerosl) Hairdrier overheating and cutting out, have you disconnected the element? Bouncy castle blower from ebay would work, although I would go for something like the Axminster Power tools portable extractor fan which is more than adequate for the job and relatively quiet, with the advantage that you can use it as a welding fume extractor. Get your sticks going first, then put your coke on, on a light blow on the slide valve and let it catch through slowly, just walk away and leave it, observe from a distance, and adjust air as necessary once the smoke has cleared and fire is going. Too much air and you will either blow the fire out, or the paper and sticks will burn through before the coke catches light, the lot will then collapse and you will have to start all over again. I feel for your disappointment, better luck next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason @ MacTalis Ironworks Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 get a rag of GOOD terry cloth... saturate it in veg oil... what kind? it doesn't matter, any veg oil will do. Take a good heat and bust all your scale off, or give it a once over with a wire wheel. With your steel at a good black heat, wipe the rag quickly with a dabbing motion. You will see if it is too hot because nothing will happen. When it cools to the proper temp, it will blacken up nicely. If you try to finish it while it is too hot all you will succeed in doing is burning up your rag. The older and more used these rags become, the better they finish. Mine go on like a semi-gloss black laquer. This is the only finish I use except rustoleum for outdoor railings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewed Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Since your hair dryer is a POS, I would open it up and disconnect the heating element. This should keep it from over heating. To start a fire, I use newspaper - a few sheets and drizzle some oil on them. I use chainsaw bar oil ( veg based ) as that is what I had in the shed. Made a hotter / longer burning fire than just the plain news paper. Also make sure you kindling is going well before adding the coal. For finishing, If not to be used as an eating, I use either bees wax or paraffin wax. Heat the metal just enough to melt the wax. Once the wax has melted all over the piece, hang it on a nail to cool. When cool, I buff with a piece of split grain leather - but any ruffer cloth will work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomN Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 Thank you John. I will look up those things and start scouring ebay. Unfortunately I could not disconnect the heating element from the hairdrier, as its held together with anti tamper screws. I may just cut a notch in a screwdriver and use that, but i'd rather be doing other things if i'm going to get another blower. It was so disapointing not to get it going. Especially as I was so close at one point! Next time it will be done. I'm also going to get the wife to help me make a hook, as she really liked the one I brought back from a course. Bit of a fun thing for her to take away. Once I get over this initial hump, I will be away. Can't wait! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason @ MacTalis Ironworks Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I dislike using waxes for 2 reasons. First, if my work is out in the sun, the wax melts and becomes somewhat of an oily mess, second, it makes a mess of my anvil. The hot oil solves both those problems. Additionally, it is always food safe, and easy to care for if it does begin rusting at all, you wipe on fresh oil, and then wipe it off with a clean rag. It is quite durable for an indoor finish. I know some folk complain about this finish not taking, but it really is an experience thing. If it is applied properly, it becomes almost a black lacquer on the surface and endures most of what indoor life has to throw at it. I have a few pieces outdoor even with this finish that are still rust free after 3 years (they are under the shelter of eaves and don't receive direct weather). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewed Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Hmm, I've never had a problem with wax melting in the sun, sounds like you may be putting it on to thick. Also, wax when piece is compleated, that keeps it off your anvil! But I think I will give veg oil a try, good to have options! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason @ MacTalis Ironworks Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 the biggest keys with hot oil are 1. Use terry cloth towel material, not old shirts or the like. 2. Don't put it on with the steel too hot, use dabbing and rotate the rag around alot so as to always expose new areas. You'll see when it cools down enough to start taking. 3. The more used the rag gets, the better it finishes. I've been playing with different approaches to artificially aging them, but so far, I haven't found a reliable method. It appears as if you need to scorch out the volatiles in the oil so it takes on somewhat of a greasy feel to it, I've tried baking them but the oven isn't hot enough, I've tried it in a semi-hot forge, but then the rag just burns. I'm guessing it's probably gonna need to be held at around 600-700F for awhile to really take on the characteristics you want, definitely at a smoking heat. I'm currently looking for an old oven I can overide the thermostat in and just manually monitor. If I come up with anything reliable, I'll certainly give a holler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elemental Metal Creations Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I just finished a utensil rack I made for my wife. I put it in the oven @ 400 deg. F, after it got hot I wiped it with cheap olive oil. I did 3 coats letting it bake in between coats and it came out a beautiful deep glossy black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomN Posted December 11, 2011 Author Share Posted December 11, 2011 Well I got the forge going today. Made a hook to get my 'eye back in', as I haven't hit any hot steel for months. The wife loved watching me do it. The smell of the hot coke and hot metal was great. I also managed to remove all of my nose hairs by leaning over the forge. Not breathed this clearly in years. Maybe i've come across a new way to get into the male grooming market? haha. I started making a letter opener as well. Never seen one made, so just made it up as I went along. Of course I had a fair idea on what I wanted to do. I upset the end a bit, then put a twist in it. This was difficult with my ramshackle setup for my vice, as it was a bit rickety. Plus I only had a small adjustable wrench to make the twist with. I got it to work in the end, but had to straighten it somewhat with a wooden mallet. I cut a section off and started to flaten it, to make a the blade of the letter opener. At this point it started to hammer it down, so I had to stop. I will post of pictures later of that i've made so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Hooray ! Well done Tom, up and running at last. Looking forward to the pictures, and how you develop from here on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomN Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 Here are a couple of images from the first day of forging: A hook I made out of 10mm round stock. Just because its something i've made before and wanted to get the feel of hitting hot iron with a purpose again. Below is a bar with a twist in it and then a section I am flattening out to try and make a letter opener out of. The twist came out ok in the end, despite my lack of tool and wobbly vice stand. I straightened it out with a wooden mallet , on a block of wood. All the flames made my wife and mum jump. Bit of showmanship practice for if I ever do any shows I guess (many years away yet). I know the twist isn't the best thing to put there, as its where someone will be holding the letter opener, but its for my Dad and that kind of thing will impress him. Just got to finish it off, this weekend, so i'm hoping for a rain free day. Sorry the pictures are a little dark. Its the best I could do at the moment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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