I'm very tempted to turn my small 15 lb harbor freight anvil into a swage block. I would put a veining groove and a depression for 'dishing'.

I figure, 'where else am I going to find an adequate piece of tool steel that size and weight?'

Currently I use a piece of mild steel for veining, but have already noticed some deformation of the groove.

I bought the anvil for $10 at a garage sale.

Any thoughts or opinions?

Is there another low cost alternative?

Go for it. If it doesn't work, you are out $10 and it makes a more interesting door stop.

Remember that you have more sides than just the face. You can use the sides and bottom as well as the horn.

I would put some round swages in, possibly a cone swage, a couple dish or spoon swages....oh the choices.

Phil

:) I'm pleasantly surprised that no one has said "Don't do it, you'll regret it!"

Thanks for the replies!

What is a cone swage? A groove that tapers?

Good point about using the sides! I'll use those areas first.

I have seen pieces of tube and angle iron welded together to make swedge that fit into your harder that 15 # anvil is probably cast and not your best choice. I have made some myself and used welding rod to fill in the voids they work real good I have even used them on my power hammer.

Go ahead and do it if you want, but that HF anvil is not tool steel. It's cast iron.

Go ahead and do it if you want, but that HF anvil is not tool steel. It's cast iron.

Good point. I'm sure you're right. What is the difference between Iron and steel?

Yes, a cone swage is a round groove that tapers. Might be handy...might not be.

Phil

Good point. I'm sure you're right. What is the difference between Iron and steel?

That's a much bigger question than I care to take a stab at in a single forum post. The fundamental difference is the amount of carbon they contain. Elemental iron is just that -- an element. Steel is an alloy of iron and carbon (and usually a few other things). Cast iron is also an alloy of iron and carbon, but with lots more carbon than steel. The mechanical and thermal properties of ferrous metals typically have a huge amount to do with how much carbon they contain.

That's a much bigger question than I care to take a stab at in a single forum post. The fundamental difference is the amount of carbon they contain. Elemental iron is just that -- an element. Steel is an alloy of iron and carbon (and usually a few other things). Cast iron is also an alloy of iron and carbon, but with lots more carbon than steel. The mechanical and thermal properties of ferrous metals typically have a huge amount to do with how much carbon they contain.

I must correct your typo, there is NOT more carbon than iron in cast iron.... but there is a lot more in cast irons than steels. Most steels are less than 2% carbon most cast iron is above 3%. Because of these things, one can hammer most steels into shape, while most cast irons can not me forged., I say most because there is white iron, but I dont want to confuse you too much yet.

HF cast iron anvils are usually gray cast iron that is very soft and weak. Steel, even mild steel will be a lot tougher. A hardened and tempered high carbon steel will be WAY HARDER.

I'll tell you not to do it as the time you put into forming your swages will be a lot longer than they will last under frequent use. (and the amount of graphite in the HF anvil will make a mess of things in your shop.)

I'd make swages from mild or medium carbon steel and *forge* them to shape and hold them in the hardy hole of a regular sized anvil or in a good postvise.

HF anvils a generally a poor grade of gray cast iron. It has more than 2.5% carbon, and the carbon is free as microscopic flat pieces of carbon or graphite. These flat pieces cause a large number of stress risers making the material somewhat brittle.

For simple shapes under light duty it should hold up for a long time as long as you keep the thinest sections quite thick.

Mild steel has less than 0.3% carbon.

Phil

I do have a doubt that it is a Harbor Freight anvil....So, here are some pictures....

The markings are "USA IAF"

I must correct your typo, there is NOT more carbon than iron in cast iron.... but there is a lot more in cast irons than steels. Most steels are less than 2% carbon most cast iron is above 3%. Because of these things, one can hammer most steels into shape, while most cast irons can not me forged., I say most because there is white iron, but I dont want to confuse you too much yet.

Reread what I wrote, Steve. I said there is more ("lots more") carbon in cast iron than there is in steel. Which is correct. I did not say CI has "lots more carbon than iron." That would be incorrect. But I meant what I said.

And don't worry, I already know about white iron. And malleable iron. And ductile iron, &tc. :)

If its made in the USA I really do not think it is from harbor freight. Regardless it dose look to be cast iron anyway

Nah, I'm sure it's not HF if it's made in the USA. It's still not likely to be ductile iron, which is the only kind that I'd be willing to beat on much.

Google is not much help on USA IAF for a foundry or an anvil.

Looks like a nice anvil. there is already a shape that might make shovels between the feet if the anvil were on its side. What does the bottom look like?

If you put your spoon shapes in the side and bottom it is still usable as an anvil, even though cast iron.

Phil

Matt: "Cast iron is also an alloy of iron and carbon, but with lots more carbon than steel" is a bit ambiguous if you had added "than 'is in' steel" it would be a bit clearer---I originally read it the same way Steve did.

Arean if it was me I would not do anything in the way of modifying that anvil. Not that it is or is not good steel anvil. I would likely us it to set small rivets or light cold forging operations that do not need anything better. For a lot of the reasons posted above, it is to me just easier to use something else for a swedge block. I have a good one that I got from the Oklahoma group called Salt Fork Craftsmen. I think a contact is listed in the forums. Price was right and it does wot i need. Second choice would be a chunk of wotever kind of steel,( not cast iron) that I could find. I would grind the first shape I needed into it and add when ever I needed a new shape. And remember for this stock you can carve hardwood depressions and forge into them. Yes it will smoke a bit but a fan helps. And the shape will grow as you work. but easy to do and works for lots of things.

Matt: "Cast iron is also an alloy of iron and carbon, but with lots more carbon than steel" is a bit ambiguous if you had added "than 'is in' steel" it would be a bit clearer---I originally read it the same way Steve did.

Well then, I put this down to blacksmiths' bad habit of calling steel "iron." :)

Don't over think it. Go for it. What do you have to lose?

Bill

I think that the smith's habit of forging "iron", as in "I forge iron", goes back to the period of time when most smiths forge predominately wrought iron and only rarely steel. Steel was a luxury item and was forge welded onto on into wrought iron tooling, thus the the term "to steel", as in "to steel oneself for the coming conflict". Yes, it does seem strange to us now to forge iron when what we mostly forge is steel.
That looks like a fair anvil. I think rather than spending a lot of effort grinding that anvil into a swage block I would spend my time and effort looking for suitable items in a scrap yard that would be useable for shaping metal.

I agree. I still think it's a bad habit, though, because it creates confusion -- especially among new guys. There's wrought iron, cast iron, "iron" (the element, Fe), and "iron" (a more or less slang term for steel which, as you suggest, probably came down to us from the days when smiths forged wrought iron). When I was starting out, it took me months to figure out what all those terms refer to. And they can sometimes cause confusion even among folks who know the differences!

Then there's also the fact that some wrought iron is quite "steely." There's no standard carbon content for wrought iron, and some contains enough carbon to qualify as medium or high carbon steel in modern parlance! :)

Don't forget "tin" used for galvanized sheetsteel among other things!

I wonder how dangerous it is to use an ASO as a substitute swage block. Cast iron is weak, but its elastic limit is pretty low, and it seems that it wouldn't store all that much energy. Would flying chunks be much of a hazard, or would they just crack off?

Here is a link in which forum members discuss the danger of using cast iron for press plates. Note the injury picture. Is this likely?

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=849831