Recommended Posts

I had an inquiry from a local State Park wanting handles for cabinets in an old C.C.C. building that is being converted to a classroom. I have not been able to find any examples of cabinet handles that might have been used in C.C.C. buildings. I am looking for suggestions or examples. Thanks

See photos at post # 19 this thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Civilian Conservation Corps??? Depression era initiative to employ men out of work. Anyone able to help me clarify? Am I close?


You are right on the money, here is what wakipia says
The Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) was a public work relief program that operated from 1933 to 1942 in the United States for unemployed, unmarried men from relief families, ages 18–25. A part of the New Deal of President Franklin D. Roosevelt, it provided unskilled manual labor jobs related to the conservation and development of natural resources in rural lands owned by federal, state and local governments. The CCC was designed to provide employment for young men in relief families who had difficulty finding jobs during the Great Depression while at the same time implementing a general natural resource conservation program in every state and territory. Maximum enrollment at any one time was 300,000; in nine years 2.5 million young men participated. Reserve officers from the U.S. Army were in charge of the camps, but there was no military training or uniforms.
The American public made the CCC the most popular of all the New Deal programs.[1] Principal benefits of an individual’s enrollment in the CCC included improved physical condition, heightened morale, and increased employability. Of their pay of $30 a month, $25 went to their parents.[2] Implicitly, the CCC also led to a greater public awareness and appreciation of the outdoors and the nation's natural resources; and the continued need for a carefully planned, comprehensive national program for the protection and development of natural resources.[3]
During the time of the CCC, volunteers planted nearly 3 billion trees to help reforest America, constructed more than 800 parks nationwide and upgraded most state parks, updated forest fire fighting methods, and built a network of service buildings and public roadways in remote areas.[4]

300px-CCC_constructing_road.gif

magnify-clip.pngCCC workers constructing road, 1933.

300px-Ccc_michigan_camps.jpg

magnify-clip.pngCCC camps in Michigan; the tents were soon replaced by barracks built by Army contractors for the enrollees.[5]
The CCC operated separate programs for veterans and Indians.
Despite its popular support, the CCC was never a permanent agency. It depended on emergency and temporary Congressional legislation for its existence. By 1942, with the war industries booming and the draft in operation, need declined and Congress voted to close the program.[6]

you might try these people they may be able to help you with the cabinet hardware http://www.vandykes.com/default.aspx?gclid=CKuQytzVw6sCFY4KKgodPTIh0A Edited by Woody

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My history teacher would be proud! That was more than a few years ago, and I figured those brain cells for goners...LOL

On a more relevant note, I would be interested to see what you come up with.

Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dave,

Here's some links to CCC kitchen pictures, but unfortunately, none show the cabinets.

http://texascccparks...king-class-123/
-
http://newdeal.feri....ibrary/c04b.htm
-
http://www.criticalp...king-in-kitchen
(a short video)
-
http://images.cdn.fo...43917-image.jpg
(wait, there might be some cabinets at the extreme right of this picture, but the handles look like wood)




I will bet you that whatever the US Army was using in the 1930's would be the same. This was a massive government program, so the were setting up these camps to be quick and efficient with no frills... a place for men to eat, sleep, and work.

So, think government / military / Depression era.

I'll bet whatever they had was none too fancy and could be easily mass produced.

Good luck,

Don

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I notice that one table is common pipe fittings and pipe legs, another table is 4x4 legs, and only one table looks like it is an institutional welded table.

I was of the understanding that local materials and local craftspersons provided as much as possible, if it wasn't made by members of the corps (I could be wrong). It is entirely likely that the hardware at one location is completely different from hardware used at another location.
This means that matching the hardware at the location it is being used is what matters.

Can you get a tour of where the hardware is being used? Or at least a detailed photographic tour so as to match what is there?

Phil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DON A:
"This was a massive government program, so the were setting up these camps to be quick and efficient with no frills... a place for men to eat, sleep, and work"


This sounds like a great idea in our current Decession...Sign me up.........

hurray.gif








Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My Uncle was a CCC worker , it was a great program and fed many families in a desperate time. He was able to eke by and send his family enough to get by as well.
One project he helped with was the lodge on Mt hood in Oregon, it is an amazing place.
They also employed artists and craftsmen. Which is obvious in the construction. All the hardware was custom, but it makes sense that lesser projects might have a standard handle.Sorry I don't know what that may have been.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The WPA built a dam for a farm pond in our pasture. It had a huge cement spillway. Granddad said you were paid a $1 a day OR if you brought a team of horses it was $1.50. There were so many WPA guys working on this and they were going everywhere, so G'pa would say, "2 a comin', 2 a goin', 2 a $hittin', 2 a mowin'......

The dam lasted very well, we had three large rainstorms in a row one time and a little water got under the concrete and it was gone overnight after being there for 60 years.

There was a small building that workers could warm up in, but I can't remember what the hardware looked like.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since they were similar type programs, people often get the CCC and the WPA confused.

The young men who worked for the CCC were, by definition, unskilled labor.

The WPA employed all manner of Journeyman level individuals, and concentrated more on building "infrastructure".


It's entirely possible that buildings that were part of a CCC camp, might have been built by WPA workers, and utilized CCC personnel as laborers.


I suspect that any hardware used in that construction, would have been of a very inexpensive, utilitarian sort.


**************************************************************

An unrelated item of interest about the WPA .....


I recently discovered a collection of Folk Songs, and Stories that were collected during the Great Depression, by a Writer, who was working on a grant from the WPA.


They were mouldering away in the Basement of a Court House, somewhere in the Mid-West, ... until they were "rescued" by a local Historical Society's Document Preservation Program, that scanned them into a computer, with internet access. :)


All such programs deserve out gratitude.


.


.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


They were mouldering away in the Basement of a Court House, somewhere in the Mid-West, ... until they were "rescued" by a local Historical Society's Document Preservation Program, that scanned them into a computer, with internet access. :)

What? No link?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I ran across a bunch of oral histories collected by WPA workers on the settling of this part of the west---told by the people who did it or their kids. Our small town still has most of the sidewalks marked WPA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What? No link?


I dearly wish I could remember where it is.

About 6 months ago, my hard drive crapped out, ... and was unrecoverable. :(

Much "good stuff" was lost.


.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for all the replies. It is starting to look like the individual camps had a fair amount of leeway in what they did. Apparently I can't add photos here so I will try something else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Coalforge you might try contacting the curators at this CCC camp in Minnesota~

http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/chippewa/camp/camprabideau.htm

These camps were built all over the 48 states. I've seen lots of pictures of them and it seems that no matter where in the country they were located the buildings were all very similar. The area where I've been deer hunting for the past 20 years or so is state land, a mix of hardwoods and pine forest now but 75 years ago it was a CCC camp. All that remains is one large stone fireplace and chimney standing all by itself in the middle of nowhere. I have seen pictures of this camp too and the buildings look just like those in camps in other states. Nothing fancy, just frame structures most likely built from rough cut lumber milled right on the site.
This particular camp did forestry work. First they clear cut thousands of acres for the timber and then switched over to planting trees for the remainder of the camp's existence.

The CCC did a lot of work in the state parks here in New York as well. Many of the buildings in Allegheny State Park were built by the CCC and look much like the barracks buildings in their camps. They had (still have) very simple factory made hardware, what little hardware there is. Door and window hardware mostly. I would go with whatever was available in commercial hardware catalogs circa 1933 and stick to the most basic rudimentary cheapest end of the scale.

If the folks at Camp Rabideau up in Minnesota can identify original hardware for you from their collections I'd go with that to be sure of authenticity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of my mentors, Clarence Johnson, learned blacksmithing at the colored CCC camp in Bosier City. He was the mill smith at the Fisher saw mill for fourty years. When I went back to college I found a year book in the NSU archives from his camp. He found several pictures that included himself and his iron work and tractor mechanic teacher- a white man. Much to learn.

As an historical interest, Roosevelt's chief advisor on the CCC was one of the men who set up and ran the the successful German version, established some years earlier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I notice that one table is common pipe fittings and pipe legs, another table is 4x4 legs, and only one table looks like it is an institutional welded table. I was of the understanding that local materials and local craftspersons provided as much as possible, if it wasn't made by members of the corps (I could be wrong). It is entirely likely that the hardware at one location is completely different from hardware used at another location. This means that matching the hardware at the location it is being used is what matters. Can you get a tour of where the hardware is being used? Or at least a detailed photographic tour so as to match what is there? Phil


There were craftsmen that taught various crafts to the enrollees. (see the note above from tomhw) While the buildings that housed the members were often simple, some of the work done on the structures done for State and National Parks shows some fine work and artistry. I have photos of the building where the handles will go as well as handles on the exterior doors that I am duplicating from a nearby building. As soon as I can post photos, I will. There are no cabnets in any of the buildings and the outside doors have a large double scroll that wouldn't work on cabinets. If I had something to copy, I would do it but with nothing existing at present, I am after ideas from other CCC sites. Several years ago I made handles in another area of the same park (several miles and a ferry ride away and in a different county) Those are totally different than where I am working now. The CCC was building the bridge to replace the ferry. See http://en.wikipedia....ion_Pass_Bridge

1 - This is the building that will get the handles

2 - handles I am duplicating for the outside doors

3 - inside of handle 2

4 - Handles I made several years ago in a different area of the same park


I originally wanted to put thumbnails under my first post but couldn't make it work. Is there any way I can edit my first post either to include the thumbnails or so I can refer people to the photos?

post-1-0-51979800-1317867805_thumb.jpg

post-1-0-91259100-1317867809_thumb.jpg

post-1-0-11424800-1317867814_thumb.jpg

post-1-0-03291800-1317868025_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really like the handle you made, suits it perfectly. I didn't realize it was near Deception pass, I love it there. One of my other uncles used to scuba there and wait for the tide to change. It would rush him though the channel very fast.
Good luck with finding a design, I say they got the right man for the job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a favour: be sure to stamp the year you make the hardware into the back of it so 50 years down the line they can differentiate the original stuff and the newer stuff that gets added.

Doesn't need to be visible without dismounting the hardware; but would sure help historians of ironwork in the future!

(I did a knife that was "aged" once to look like an antique original. I took solder and inlet it in the tang side of the handle slabs for the year to make something that would stand out on an x-ray...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wayne, nice work ! Glad you still kickin and shoutin AND glad you still finding solutions. Thanks for the pics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is in the Deception Pass Park. I made 4 handles, roof truss braces and some other ironwork for he Cranberry Lake area on Whidbey Island in 2003 for some restoration work for the CCC's 70th anniversary. The handles I am making now are copies of a forged handle on the bath house on Fidalgo Island, north of the bridge

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.