MattBower Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 So I know a guy who recently bought a Hay-Budden, and the front of the face, on the horn endthat's starting to delaminate. There's about a 3" section of the face that has separated from the body. I told him that I don't think arc welding around the perimeter of the crack is going to be very effective, and to it right he'd have to preheat the whole anvil hot enough that there'd be a risk of screwing up the temper. I see a few options, a couple of which I haven't seen suggested before. (1) Try the perimeter weld, with or without preheat. (2) Continue to use the anvil, avoiding working on the delaminated part of the face, and repair it by the Gunter method if and when it completely delaminates. That could be a long time. (3) Remove the delaminated section -- cut it off, then grind back to where the weld is still solid. This may sound crazy, but I wonder if vibration on the already delaminated part of the face doesn't tend to contribute to the problem spreading. (4) Clamp the loose part of the face to the body as tightly as possible, drill a few holes through the delam'd part into the body (easier said than done), tap them, slather some grade 8 bolts with JB weld, run them in, and grind off the heads flush with the face. This doesn't run the risk of screwing up the face temper, but I don't know how it'd hold up or even if it'd be counterproductive. What are your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 As per #4, If I used this method I would put it in a hyd press instead of clamping.......I think anything you do with the loose face is a stop gap cause it will likely fail again.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 (5) Drill some 1/2" holes thru the loose part of the face, clamp it down tightly, plug weld** to fill the holes, then weld the perimeter. Still a stopgap solution, but quick and dirty may get you by. It should stop or slow the continued delamination, without screwing up the heat treatment of the rest of the face. **Kinda like filling an ice cream cone, weld around the inside and work your way up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maurice Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I think 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Ritter Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I would pick #3, to cut the de-laminated part of the face off with a zip wheel. Then after removing the loose face and finding solid weld again to re-build the missing area using Rob Grunter's method. Yes, it is time consuming, but you have a good solid face when finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 My little shop anvil is a 140lb Hay Budden that had about exactly the same issue... It might have even been more than 3".... Only difference was the face was already removed when I got the anvil so I didn't have "options" A friend of mine welded up the whole section with stoody base rod and then 2110 hardface.. It was a little soft at first so I work hardened it by beating the heck out of it with a sledge and then cleaned it up again... Its seen hard use for 6 or 7 years now with no problems Ive fixed enough anvils on my own now that I wouldn't hesitate to have a go at fixing it.. and by fixing it I mean cut the old plate off and weld up a new working surface.. The half a dozen + anvils I have repaired are all held up with no issues.. I use Stoody 965 G wire and have had repaired anvils hardness tested and come back in the 55-60 HRC range I think edge welding, plug welding or anything that doesn't have a full bond to the base is a waste of time if you want to get full use of the anvil... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
781 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 The good thing about a committee to decide what to do is if you have enough on the committee you get someone to vote for all the above choices. Has the delam continued to get bigger over time and does it present a problem for using this anvil or can you easily work around it? Tell us what you decided and how it worked out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 The good thing about a committee to decide what to do is if you have enough on the committee you get someone to vote for all the above choices. That's always the problem with committees, but since I've never attempted an anvil repair, I wanted to get some input before I start spouting off to this guy about all the cutting, grinding and welding he should do on his anvil. Has the delam continued to get bigger over time and does it present a problem for using this anvil or can you easily work around it? He just bought it, so we don't know the history. He hasn't done any work on it yet. The face is 18" long, so he can definitely work around a ~3" delam on on end. (Though I personally do a lot of work on the edge of the step behind the horn, so I'd be annoyed if I couldn't use that. But if someone wanted to give me a Hay-Budden at a good price, I could probably learn to live with it. )Tell us what you decided and how it worked out I'll try to post an update if and when there's news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 The more I think about this, the more I think the idea of cutting off the delam'd part of the face -- and then grinding back a little further to be sure he hasn't left a part of the separation that isn't visible to the naked eye -- might be a good bet. I think it'd be just like stop drilling a crack in sheet metal. If he's going to have to avoid working on that part of the face anyway, there'd be no real harm in losing it. And it wouldn't prevent a Gunter method repair later, if that turned out to be necessary. It'd be cosmetically ugly and, as he put it, a little sacrilegious, but I don't see any other real down side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Now if you do cut off the delam face section you will then have a piece of *old* high carbon steel that should be saved to make a knife from in a style appropriate to the date of the anvil. I have an 1820's William Foster missing almost all the face save for one small section that I picked up for US$5 to have both some dated steel for an 1820's style blade and a base to try to forge weld the top on sometime in the traditional manner. (I'm the guy who suggested that to SOFA as a demo for Q-S and then wasn't able to attend that year!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 Now if you do cut off the delam face section you will then have a piece of *old* high carbon steel that should be saved to make a knife from in a style appropriate to the date of the anvil. That occurred to me as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evfreek Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I think that all choices have their merits, and I wouldn't rush into it. The part about welding around the outside without preheat may not be such a good idea, but the outcome may not be much worse than what you already have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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