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Posted

I want to make a punch (I think that's the right word for this kind of tool) to use as a hardy tool for poking holes in steel. So I figured I should buy some tool steel. But this website (http://www.speedymetals.com/c-8303-round.aspx) has six different kinds of tool steel and I don't really know one from the other. Which kind of tool steel should I buy?

Posted

4140 or 5160 (automotive springs) are decent choices for a beginner tool. They are relatively easy to work, hardens decent, and are hard enough normalized for a good number of things. Since you will be replacing it with a better tool as your skill increases the total durability is less important, it can be re-dressed as needed.

I have made tools out of a36 and they work fair. Some I attempted to harden, others I made no attempt at hardening. If the metal is hot, then the tool will penetrate. I have a hot chisel that needs redressing rather frequently, but veins leaves rather well.

Phil

Posted

Of those listed H-13 and S-7 are commonly used by smiths for applications where the tool will be buried into hot metal.

However as Phil mentioned you may want to work with auto coil spring a bit until you figure out what you want in a tool *BEFORE* you shell out $$$$ for a pricey tool steel.
(After all punching was done with quite simple steels for 1000 years before we had the fancy ones!)

Posted

I want to make a punch (I think that's the right word for this kind of tool) to use as a hardy tool for poking holes in steel. So I figured I should buy some tool steel. But this website (http://www.speedymetals.com/c-8303-round.aspx) has six different kinds of tool steel and I don't really know one from the other. Which kind of tool steel should I buy?


You don't have to buy specific tool steels, a recycled Car's coil spring will work fine. and yes it's a punch, I have yet to see a hardie tool for poking holes in steel.

Basically the hardie hole is a quick release tool mounting place, used also for various other operations. Hardies and other tools that fit into the hardie such as swages etc are worked/hammered on and into rather than used to poke holes upwards into metal, try this and you will damage both tthe tool and your hammer's face
Posted

If you want to make a punch or any other tool, research past threads from Brian Brazeal and others on tool making. many of us (myself included) use recycled materials for tooling.
save the expense of new material for later, after you get more learnin' As John B said coil springs work as do tire irons, most suspension parts, axels , all free and easy to harden

Posted

I suggest that you stick with something relatively simple like 4140 or 5160, as Phil and others have suggested, until you have considerably more experience. Tool steels are more expensive (much more expensive, in some cases), and the requirements for properly heat treating steels like H13 and S7 are much more complex. No, your 4140 and 5160 tools won't hold up to hot work like S7 or H13, but you can work around that by cooling them regularly during hot work, and you can fairly easily rework and re-heat-treat them when the need arises.

Posted

Thanks for all the help, guys. Follow-up question: When making a hardy tool, does the shank have to fit snugly in the hardy hole? When working with a 1-inch hardy hole do I have to buy 1-inch stock to make a hardy tool for it? Or can it be looser provided it rests on top of the anvil?

Posted

Thanks for all the help, guys. Follow-up question: When making a hardy tool, does the shank have to fit snugly in the hardy hole? When working with a 1-inch hardy hole do I have to buy 1-inch stock to make a hardy tool for it? Or can it be looser provided it rests on top of the anvil?


I find it much easier to work on hardy tools that fit the hole reasonably well. Too loose wobbles around and makes your job that much harder.

You can upset thinner stock to make it fit, but it's easier to start with something that's the right size to begin with.

What're you planning to do for a collar or shoulder on the tool?
Posted

If you use a solid hardie post you can get the thing stuck in the hole or damage the anvil with excessive pressure. A piece of flat bar the diagonal of the hole will work, as will a piece of square tubing with the flat sides slightly puckered inward.

The main reason for the hardie post is to keep the tool in place and keep it from jumping about. It also keeps the tool aligned properly in respect to the anvil and the work.

Posted

Many old anvil have hardy holes that are off sized or out of square. Fitting the shaft to the hole is part of the construction job!

As I tend to have difficulties with students not using the hardy made for the anvil they are using in class I tend to make my hardy shafts long enough to protrude from the bottom of the anvil and then tapered so that they can't be "riveted in" by people pounding on them from below to try to get them to unseat---a big problem when they want to use the 1" hardy in the 7/8" hardy hole; sigh,.

Posted

4140 is a great choice and although coil springs are free the time spent straighting it is fuel and time. Last week I got a price quote on 4140 3/8-5/8- and 3/4 for a 12 foot piece it was $13.31 for 3/8, $28.14 for 5/8 and $39.00 for 3/4". At those prices get the material cut to length and make your punches. oil quench. Some times free is not a good deal. Work smarter not harder.

Posted

you should go with larger stock taper the end to fit in the hole and up set a shoulder by driving it in for a snug fit and mark the side facing you so you put it back in the hole the same way not all holes are true.


Thanks for all the help, guys. Follow-up question: When making a hardy tool, does the shank have to fit snugly in the hardy hole? When working with a 1-inch hardy hole do I have to buy 1-inch stock to make a hardy tool for it? Or can it be looser provided it rests on top of the anvil?



Posted

I just watched Gordon Williams, AZ, demonstrate. He recomended if the shank was too loose to wrap it with duct tape.
Said at his shop for clases he had anvils with several different hardy size and he wraped tools with tape so they fit the anvil a student was using.
I like to weld on a piece of 3/8 rectangle bar crosswise in the hole and grind to fit. That way you had two sides to weld and did not have to worry about the weld getting in the way
When Imade one piece roses I like a piece of 1/8" bed frame with a tab welded on one side. I dont sharpen the angle leg just use it as is. This gives a wider cut between the petals before they are spread out and thinned.

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