Skidding Tongs - any thoughts on design versus function

[David Einhorn]

We had some large trees come down. One is in the lower field and probably more than two feet in diameter. I notice that the skidding tongs (for use behind a tractor) for sale tend to have associated comments indicating that most tend to be flimsy and not well made. The pictures of skidding tongs makes it look like a very simple and quick job of forging. My initial thought is to use 1.5 inch by 1/2 inch flat stock.

Does anyone have any experience with skidding tongs sufficient to suggest good design features, especially any considerations that would be less than obvious?

Thank you in advance for your time and kindness in providing suggestions and information.

[pkrankow]

Please excuse the linking. This was discussed while you were out, Stuart, Phil (Forgemaster, not me) and a few others make them







Hope this helps

Phil

[Ramsberg]

Hey David,

In lue of the tongs are log skid hooks, I have never used them but know that they were popular many years ago. They were made short and stuby, from thick stock, say 1 1/2" square with a square section blunt hook forged on one end and a hole punched in the other with a ring forged in it.

These were used in pairs, two being driven into the log and the chain attached to the rings in the hooks, as Charles McRaven describes them in his "Country Blacksmithing" book, "Two were used together, as a sort of free-form pair of grabhooks."

It seems to me that the individual hooks would be much more versatile but may take a bit longer to use.

Caleb Ramsby

[ThomasPowers]

Better make them of a medium carbon steel if going with 1/2" thick stuff---perhaps heavy leaf spring? and heat treat them *tough* not hard.

[nhblacksmith]

We had some large trees come down. One is in the lower field and probably more than two feet in diameter. I notice that the skidding tongs (for use behind a tractor) for sale tend to have associated comments indicating that most tend to be flimsy and not well made. The pictures of skidding tongs makes it look like a very simple and quick job of forging. My initial thought is to use 1.5 inch by 1/2 inch flat stock.

Does anyone have any experience with skidding tongs sufficient to suggest good design features, especially any considerations that would be less than obvious?

Thank you in advance for your time and kindness in providing suggestions and information.

For the size logs you have you will probably want to start with at least 1" round stock. Flat stock will twist and be useless. I have a pair of skidding tongs that I bought for handling some dead Tamarack on my property after several dismal attempts to forge a pair that would take the strain. For actual skidding, I prefer just wrapping a chain with a slip hook around the log but tongs are great for lifting and stacking the logs with a tractor bucket or like I do, loading on my portable mill. For stock sizes and capacities you can check out Peavey Manufacturing. They have been in business for a long time and have worked the bugs out of their products. They have photos and size charts at: http://www.peaveymfg.com/tongs.html

When you start yarding logs out behind a tractor, they will catch on every stump and rock and there will be some very heavy strain put on the tongs. They need to be rugged and I don't think mild steel is the right material

[mike-hr]

Sounds like a worthy project, but for function it's hard to beat a chain or cable choker.

[Fe-Wood]

I'm with Mike on this one. Tongs look cool but get bent when the log rolls on them etc. Having set chokers for many hundreds of logs in my youth- Its the way to go....

If you do make some show pictures. I've been wanting to make a 3 jaw set for moving small boulders....

[jake pogrebinsky]

David,hi.I've used the skidding tongs extensively,and may even have to forge a set here in a while.
Much good info has passed above,let me quickly reiterate some of it.

The stock would be better round.One inch mentioned may be overkill,but it won't hurt nothing.
There's a link above that i didn't open(computer speed is dismal),but it's a right idea,look at a store-boughten pair.The photo above is,of course,not the skidding tongs,but a log-builder's hand-tong,for manipulating logs in const.,very useful tool indeed.
The kind that you need have a 2-stage compression joint,like a forging tong with 2 hinges.The outer-most is made of three rings,(mig or arc them well).
I wouldn't worry about the sort of steel,as the physics work to your advantage,mild'll be fine,the points that carry the load are proportionally very stout.
Size the tongs so that the points point in a bit(obviously ),but grabbing the little ends will serve you better,so no reason to build a giant set.
There's a number of log-builders that i know that use regular,store tongs(usually bought at Bailey's mailorder)for lifting,though they're not rated for it.But lifting is a different story.Dragging logs along the ground you're safe no matter what you do.Or,if you have a 3-point on the tractor,do lift it a bit,it's very helpful.

If you end up dragging with just a chain(chokers are nice,but are used in industry where often some lift is present,dragging by choker is fairly dismal,depends on terrain/hp of your rig),use a 8-10' or so log chain,with a hook on each end,5/16" be plenty.Choke one end around the log,and use the other end to bridle back to the opposite side of your loop.Making a loop that grabs the bottom 1/3 or so of the log dia.That will keep it from rolling and diggging in(for the most part ,it helps,anyway).
If you grab the skinny end of the log the physics will provide some lift.
Best of luck,Jake

[David Einhorn]

I am very appreciative of all the great advise and assistance. It sounds like I will be best to keep using logging chains behind the tractor (with 3-point hitch) to clear the chunks of this tree and the occasional tree that is felled by a storm. Again, thank you all.

[Don A]

I have a couple old pairs of tongs that were made for moving wood poles in excess of 50'. These tongs probably weigh 20 lbs. They are around 1" and the points are sharp and slightly turned up so the harder you pull, the deeper they dig.

One simpler option that the old time loggers around here used for snaking and skidding was log grabs, like this:

Log Grabs

Unlike the picture, these were used in pairs with the hooks driven in the side of the log, near the end, and 180 degrees apart. Of course you have to have a hammer to drive 'em and something to pry them free when you're done.

I still prefer the choke chain or cable, but I will get the tongs out occasionally if I am using the boom pole on my tractor to move logs. You don't have to roll the log or dig under for the chain.

[tomhw]

David,hi.I've used the skidding tongs extensively,and may even have to forge a set here in a while.
Much good info has passed above,let me quickly reiterate some of it.

The stock would be better round.One inch mentioned may be overkill,but it won't hurt nothing.
There's a link above that i didn't open(computer speed is dismal),but it's a right idea,look at a store-boughten pair.The photo above is,of course,not the skidding tongs,but a log-builder's hand-tong,for manipulating logs in const.,very useful tool indeed.
The kind that you need have a 2-stage compression joint,like a forging tong with 2 hinges.The outer-most is made of three rings,(mig or arc them well).
I wouldn't worry about the sort of steel,as the physics work to your advantage,mild'll be fine,the points that carry the load are proportionally very stout.
Size the tongs so that the points point in a bit(obviously ),but grabbing the little ends will serve you better,so no reason to build a giant set.
There's a number of log-builders that i know that use regular,store tongs(usually bought at Bailey's mailorder)for lifting,though they're not rated for it.But lifting is a different story.Dragging logs along the ground you're safe no matter what you do.Or,if you have a 3-point on the tractor,do lift it a bit,it's very helpful.

If you end up dragging with just a chain(chokers are nice,but are used in industry where often some lift is present,dragging by choker is fairly dismal,depends on terrain/hp of your rig),use a 8-10' or so log chain,with a hook on each end,5/16" be plenty.Choke one end around the log,and use the other end to bridle back to the opposite side of your loop.Making a loop that grabs the bottom 1/3 or so of the log dia.That will keep it from rolling and diggging in(for the most part ,it helps,anyway).
If you grab the skinny end of the log the physics will provide some lift.
Best of luck,Jake

I agree with this and add that tongs do not require that the log be lifted off the ground, as chokers do, to grab and drag the log to its destination.

[mike-hr]

Not forging related, but when I'm dragging logs behind the pickup, it helps to chain from the pickup to an old car tire, then from the old tire to the log chain. The tire gives the system some elasticity iffin' there's terrain or rocks along the route.

[Francis Trez Cole]

We had some large trees come down. One is in the lower field and probably more than two feet in diameter. I notice that the skidding tongs (for use behind a tractor) for sale tend to have associated comments indicating that most tend to be flimsy and not well made. The pictures of skidding tongs makes it look like a very simple and quick job of forging. My initial thought is to use 1.5 inch by 1/2 inch flat stock.

Does anyone have any experience with skidding tongs sufficient to suggest good design features, especially any considerations that would be less than obvious?

Thank you in advance for your time and kindness in providing suggestions and information.

David i you are using a tractor with a 3 point hitch just use a chain and lift the front end of the log off the ground. In the past when dragging logs having the front of the log on a sled keeping it from digging in was the key. I have seen this method used when using a team of horses or mules. northern tools carry different items http://www.northernt...35943_200335943 http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200397230_200397230

[forgemaster]

Hi David

The tongs that we make to sell are forged out of 30mm round spring (normally 5160) to a 30mm x 12mm section. They have a double joint arrangement to assist with biting into the log (so I'm told by our customer). The head arrange ment is profile cut from 12mm mild steel and it has a 16mm ring of about 4" dia put into it and welded. Our customer usually gets some of his order proof loaded stamped and certified by a third party, his normal safe working load limit I think is about 1.5 ton, (so he gets them proof loaded to 3 ton) apparantly the biggest problem he has with getting the proof load is that the points will often just pull through the timber, the tongs are OK, just they cannot grip the timber on a 1/2" wide point good enough to withstand 3 tons pulling them. We don't Quench and Temper the arms just a normalise of the whole tongs after they are finished, but before testing.

[ThomasPowers]

Local small scrap yard had a set of stout looking log tongs buried under one of it's piles.

I'd be happy to inquire of it's cost if you like. The area used to have forested mountins till they were all clear cut for the mines and fuel.

[David Einhorn]

Thomas, I tried to send you a message but the system said that I could not send you a private message.

Your kind offer is greatly appreciated. I am not sure what to say. Because of my current finances I had best turn down the offer, as money is very tight now. Thank you again, it was very kind of you to offer.

> Local small scrap yard had a set of
> stout looking log tongs buried under one of it's piles.

[Adirondacker]

David,
Every year men are killed skidding logs with farm tractors, usually the result of the log being skidded snubs onto something causing the tractor to flip over backwards. I think somebody already mentioned using the draw bar and getting the log up off the ground. This will do three things for you, lifting the log up gives a huge mechanical advantage in skidding vs skidding with log flat on the ground , its a safer way to move logs less chance of snubbing against something causing the tractor to flip, and by skidding with log up off the ground keeps your log cleaner of dirt and rocks all which will make sawing better for chainsaw or mill. One last thought if where your skidding is in the woods be very careful of the overhead your log bumping into trees can cause dead snags to dislodge and fall on you (also know as widow makers). Don't mean to lecture but I have many years of working in the woods and have seen how thing can go wrong in a heart beat .
Adirondacker

[David Einhorn]

I greatly appreciate all the advice and concern, everyone has been very kind.

My intention was to slide chunks about 4 to 8 ft long from the field up to my shop, most likely just 4 ft long or less. The field has no obstructions, it is not in the woods, and there are no slopes to worry about.

This is not a logging operation, I just want to remove one tree from the field, and maybe save some 20 inch sections for curing to make wheel hubs. I have been moving fallen trees for over 20 years from the yard and the fields, and my priority has always been on safety. The current plan is to hire some help, and use chains to move sections about 4ft long.

Thank you again for all the kind advice and assistance.

[ThomasPowers]

OK; I'll go ask and if they're cheap get them for you as a gift...be willing to trade for a copy of your book if you have an extra one and I'll cover shipping of them too. If the guy is reasonable. I probably need to go out this weekend and find more steel anyway as the next pot is due to arrive tonight and I'm guessing that the current spider won't fit it...now if you don't want them then it's ok to just say no. You are under *no* obligation. I've been given powerful gifts from other smiths and need to share the luck.

BTW my e-mail address is my name, no caps all run together, at zianet dot com