John B Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Hi Beth, welded on bitsdressed in are fine, if you used Mig (as it looks like) purge your gasbefore you start the weld if the gun has been stood for a while, or increase the flow, it looks like you have porosity at the joint probably due to lack of shielding gas otherwise they look fine, On the fire welding sample was it Wrought Iron or steel you were using? If it is steel, too thin and the end will burn off very easily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 thanks john - yes the welds were like that becasue i thought i was going home, turned the gas of at the bottle ( have lost too many by leaving it on by mistake that im paranoid!) then decided to weld those on and didnt turn it back on thus im sure, any porosity you can see. . ! on the fire weld it was steel, so do you think not such a thinned out scarf then in that case?? here is what i tried today - need to make a kind of hemlock flower head so i tried cutting down a flattened out bit, then spreading them out - as soon as i saw it take shape i realised the stick bits have to come up further on the outside ones, and also i cut very carelessly and lost a stick, so more careful cutting next time. any tips on blobs on the end? they are quite fine, so i blobbed mig on them and hammered flat. they will need to look neater and better than this, i was experimenting... any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 beth; Think about maybe doing one of Brian Brazeals welded bundles for those flowers. Then you could do the blobs in Jake's style that you have been practicing and just weld them up onto a stem by collaring ala Brazeal! That way no MIG just fully forged and failed blossoms can be discarded before bundling. You would also eliminate the cutting and do welding instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 big foot it has crossed my mind... but is it too ambitious? i have only done two welds that were only nearly proper - not even really proper!!! it was so cool yesterday - i could FEEL that it was welding - had such a grin on my face i could try - the stem bits are only tiny - im sure to burn em all away - they are only 3 or 4 mm wide.... i remember seeing his (b braz) squid thingy with all the pieces - so so cool. i could maybe do the flowers slightly bigger so that this idea is easier to perform...? they would look better though wouldnt they... what kind of wire should i use to hold them together? do i need a collar then? yes i would wouldnt i or where they join would be too thin.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 JAKE - SEND ME YOUR ADDRESS ! (or nearest thing you have to one) private mail it me if your para you'll get loads of hate mail! i want to send you the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Hi Beth, don't quite know what you are trying to achieve with your 'Hemlock' effect as my understanding is the overall effect would be umbrella shaped. There are a number of ways to achieve this, yours being the basis for one of them, and if I went this way, I would split the end longer, isolate each individual strand so you can work on an individual 'stem', then by curling the tip back onto itself this will give you the extra material to form a blob, you may have to try a couple of different lengths to see how much allowance for your blob you will need, and then form the blob try a fire weld if you wish, or just work into a blob by forging on the edge of the anvil or like forming a rivet head using a split former in a vise. Another way to go would be to form your individual strands (with a blob on the end), and then forge them together as you would when making a cage twist but use a solid long centre piece and only weld the one base end. You could make this a seven strand or thirteen strand flower head that would open out into that characteristic umbrella shape of the hemlock flower, (This is where you could use the Brain Brazeal collared bundle technique if you wished, its not difficult, just like forge welding a collar onto a bar to form a ball end), then draw the bundle down for the stem. No harm in Mig tacking the bar ends together before trying to fireweld them in Have fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Jake I have a great affinity with large stock material How the material deforms under great pressure and force seems to be right up there with explosives and fast women? I mean cars… IMO it seem to show the nature of the martial better than thin material, repousse tries to visually convince us of volume, but that’s different? Would it be less valued if your candle cups were thin material formed with repousse? Beth, The Hemlock flower seems to be a great opportunity not to use tradition techniques to make your connections. Any forge welded joint would seem to be to large for intersecting the pieces your trying to join. I would prefer the mig for making the transition maybe with a rod bent in the middle forge to a point then welding them into a group. You can also use the Oxy/Acty torch to go back over the welds. Oh yea, 57 Buick special my great grandfather Joe bought new in Great Bend KS. My torso has progressed, need to figure the lump of coal on her shoulders yet (7” of 4” square) I was considering a human skull but I’m not sure she’s entirety one variety? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 thanks john - i knew you would have some ideas - the carrying on the same but longer strands and curling back each for a blob sounds do - able for me, i really want to try to forge welded bundle but i fear it is a bit beyonds me.this of course wont stop me trying so you mean weld all the strands around a centre strand that is part of the stem? yes its an umbrella shape i want will try to atatch something... danger - thanks also - yes i am quite happy to mig it together if thats what i need to do to get it to look how i want it - iw think i will try all methods - i have not decided on final scale for flower head but finished size will be from between 3 and about 5 inches wide... love your motor obviously - you lot have the weather for keeping this stuff outside better than us! here are some photos i could find quickly of some of our vehicular turnover - the black cab is very british and willmake you smile (jake ) i have actually owned three of them cos they are SO GOOD! two black (one manual one auto - the auto was rubbish) and one whit e manual which was my personal fave.. not anything like your little beauty danger - but still loved! the horse lorry was a camper and very pretty inside although i have no photos to hand - have only just got a grip with having a proper camera! im glad to hear you think women akin to deforming large lumps of metal... intriguing! although to be fair you did say fast women - thats not all of us then.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 ps danger also forgot to comment on the abstract sculpture i like the firey looking wings? are they wings? its a she then? - please post more as she comes together - my fave bits are the JOINTS... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 Michael,you're a wild man,for sure!I like that crazy torso,a human skull sounds fitting...You'll have to...umm...,harvest it yourself?(I'm so tired that had to sit a while to think of a politically-correct euthemism for the above:). Your toys are so out-of-sight nice that i don't even envy them(the one HD in Galena has ended up here by mistake,the owner was very bad at geography,so got it shipped before realising just where he's moved to).I've a little soft-chined skiff that's almost as good as a motorcicle:). Beth,that is really VERY cool,how much valid,thoughtful,and diverse advice your project inspired so far.Please,let us know how it's going,what you're doing is very worthwhile and interesting,and brings about some neat points and details. I was EXTREMELY happy to read that you've had that rare peacefull,competent,forge-welding moment,that is just the best,that's exactly what keeps us all going back to the forge every chance we get...Very happy to read that,after a fairly rough day. My good friend is very near the end,and going fast.His son in law,also my very close friend,is building the coffin,and asked me to forge a cross for the top of it.I've spent 12 hours in the forge trying to do the very best i could. My friend liked the mix of metals,so i've unbent more of that copper pipe for one of the lifts.The iron parts are hot dipped into waste-oil(the smell is my favorite part of the process),and all in all,everything is as is proper for a send off of an old welder,mechanic,hunter,just a fantastic human being. Tomorrow i'll try to forge a flower for the middle space.Out of that 5mm or so copper that actually this very friend has given me.There's a great decorative element in Athabaskan lore,our "rose",the 5-petalled blssoms of which are the first flowers out in the spring,and it's often present in beadwork,and other local visual crafts.My friend has lived here since early 60-ies, married an Athabaskan woman,and has a great,numerous family.His kids told me that when the'd come back from school and query him about all the ambient racist issues,as in who's a "breed",and all that's so common here(and everywhere),he'd tell them:Remember,you're not white,and you're not indians,you're Americans. My buddy was a real man,he'd have liked a flower on the cross of his coffin,or at least would have a laugh about it,wherever he's at now.Peace. Beth,i'm too wiped out to resist,i give up... Jake Pogrebinsky P.O.Box 271 Galena,AK,99741 (Actually,i just got a letter from California,addressed to Jake,blacksmith,Galena,Alaska...It all works. But beware!The retribution will be terrible!I'll send you back a human head,or something gross like that!No,wait,that was Michael's project...Well,i'll find something exoticly-organic here for a package to England,maybe trap that ermine and send it to you for Dolly(wonder if it'll make the trip...maybe with a chunk of something to gnaw on...)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 jake - the cross is absolutely beautiful - your friend is a lucky man to know someone that will and can do that for him in his last days. it makes me think of a good friend of mine who died about 3 years ago, and his sons did everything for the funeral, even dug the grave and we all filled it in. he was taken to the plot in his fave old lorry, and had a wicker coffin that was carried by his sons who are my age. whilst its all so dismal, its good and proper to have the focal point of making something lasting and beautiful for your friend, lovely to fill it with the alchemy of your thoughts for him and about his life while you make it - which im sure you have been doing. so sorry tho jake - i feel very sad for you. love and strength to you and all involved... as for the book, im v glad youve sent me your address, i certainly would have tried something vague like jake pog alaska if you had not complied.. you might hate the book but its worth you having a look. my stint at my workshop is over now this eek boo hoo and im back on to theoretical talk. i will watch you guys working for the inspiration and momentum keeping gift that it all is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 ps - you cant scare me with a human head - and i certainly dont want anything in return you crazy man ! i once cast a friend of mine who was a very odd and loose cannon sort of type a skull from his fave bulldog which he dug up from the garden for me to use. it was in bronze, took me blimmin hours and hours and looked ace!! but annoyingly i have no picture to show you - i dont even see him anymore... skulls are alright by me -_- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 the skull even had a loose working lower jaw!! i think its the coolest thing i ever nmade actually - and he totally loved it which was perfect :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 jake your book is on its way - so weird and easy!!! - never done that before - dont worry at all if you hate it! pass it on down to bryan or something - no pressure to enjoy it! sent with best english creation wishes to you though :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 thanks john - i knew you would have some ideas - the carrying on the same but longer strands and curling back each for a blob sounds do - able for me, i really want to try to forge welded bundle but i fear it is a bit beyonds me.this of course wont stop me trying so you mean weld all the strands around a centre strand that is part of the stem? yes its an umbrella shape i want will try to atatch something... Seeing that picture for inspiration, it should be easy peasy for you now Beth, just make number of Brian Brazeal method finger rings of suitable scale, then mig 'em together and onto a stem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 :) john - if you think that way is the easiest i am loathe to argue - i will certainly do exactly that method for starters see how it looks. i will not have a chance till i dont know when , am at the mercy of my husbands timing now! i will post my efforts for your amusement when i have them. also john, what is the nicest way to hold the curtain pole in place in its bracket? i can think of a few ways but they are not good, like a hook that just holds it - people seem to use this but surely the pole moves about a lot - also the screw keeping the pole in place through the bracket - well i dont like that way , thought of a bracket with an upright piece that could go through a hole in the rail and it sits onto that? am i being silly???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Make the flower even simpler Beth by making the bits like rose head nails with spindly bodies, you have already shown some decorative rosettes on your curtain pole ends, match those or similar, if you want a dotty finish use something like a small eye punch or a panel pin punch Go with the last option for your organic pole, you can make an organic frond curling up and out ti fix to the wall, then taper the end into a pin/hook to locate on a hole, slot punched and drifted in the pole itself, the trick here is to get both holes in line, if they are not, you can always heat the pole and twist it into line One thing to consider when making curtain poles is what hanging fixtures are you using on the curtains, if it is to be rings, you have to put them on before you secure the ends, or make provision to fix/mount the ends so they are detachable, Have fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 thanks john - i thought that was a mad way to do it but you seem to think its ok - youre right tho i will have to get holes in same plane! does using the slot mean it does not bulge out so much? am ashamed to say i just push a round punch all the way through when i make a hole... like ive said many times before by means of excusing myself!! - i just make it up - i need better info - always.. yes the brazael method for lump on end of stick is good, thats pretty much how i made rosette things, have just made a plasticine home friendly version to try, its about 4 inches high so scaled up a bit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Sorry to scare you there Jake, no intention of harvesting here. My little skull thread has some shots of my practice blobs, another direction she will go. So glad I could give you a chuckle during a time you seem to need one. Yea Beth, sorta flame/wing/ding/things trying to pull it all together now so I can stand her up so and give her some movement. Made a bolster for some 2" rivets this morning, to attach her joints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 thanks john - i thought that was a mad way to do it but you seem to think its ok - youre right tho i will have to get holes in same plane! does using the slot mean it does not bulge out so much? am ashamed to say i just push a round punch all the way through when i make a hole... like ive said many times before by means of excusing myself!! - i just make it up - i need better info - always.. yes the brazael method for lump on end of stick is good, thats pretty much how i made rosette things, have just made a plasticine home friendly version to try, its about 4 inches high so scaled up a bit... Hi Beth, slot and drift will put a bulge in the pole, but give better strength than punching a straight hole through the bar, but you can just use the slot, as is, and instead of a pin the end on your support bracket, make a tongue. The choice is yours, the prototype is looking promising Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 danger i love the skull and the drawing they are LUSH as we say here in the south of england - i also very much like your skulls on the other thread ( just made the connection! - i can be a bit slow with names) my you have heavy hands - am very interested in hands - johnb i hope doesnt mind me saying has the heaviest hands ive ever seen - they are some impressive hands - your stereotype blacksmiths hands! ! jake i reckon as a point of interest that you would have hands with knuckles that are slightly if not a lot prominent....? what would be great is if everyone could send me a photocopy or better still ink up their hands with a roller and press on paper and send me that only joking (ish) enough of that jigery pokery - looking forward to seeing skull wing sculpture being brought together danger - coolio!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 john - is a tongue just a thin straplike piece? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Aw Shucks Beth, You got me blushing now ! Yes a tongue is a thin strip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 You guys are WAY cool.That's really neat,Michael,that raven-like skull.Beth's bulldog one must've been SOMETHING,with that lower jaw of theirs...Far out,the skulls have tons of curvature that is fascinating,God's own sculpture... That's great about the 2" rivets,i can picture you Michael with that Rosie the Riveter-style riveter...Gotta love MASS,everything about it,the more iron the better,yessir!!! Beth,i'm sorry about your enforced lull in shop time,but it can be good and constructive too,we'll figure some stuff out,meanwhile. BTW,i really like your motor pool.I've had my 1966 rover,a shorter body than yours,108,i think.Loved it to death,used to carry my engine crank in the gun-rack in the back window,and hand-crank it(even after i've rewond that starter).Loved the Rover manual that came with it,it told of all sorts of bush methods,local Alaskan term for these is "abortionism".My favorite style of repair work...And every other kind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 john - nothing i could say would make you blush!! and jake - i shake your hand - the land rover style is such a good one, they are endlessly maintainable by bodgers, and we love em here! was that series 2a or still series one 1966? we have had a few over the years, series one, series 2a ambulance, an old nail series three truck cab long wheel base, varies 110's and that other coach built ambulance on the picture. the one we have now is a newer crew cab 130 but i dont have cause to drive it much. not so much fun as the old d d clutch and the manual windscreen wiper blade! the lightweights are pretty groovy too eh?... all this stuff just drives on and on.. nothing complex about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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