davis199 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Hello,Calling all and any experienced pipie welders.I am a boilermaker by trade and have welded plenty of boiler tubes.However we always tig weld the root pass.I find myself in the awkward position of having to adapt to welding a root pass with 6010.Any tips,suggestions would be appreciated.I have a good opportunity here and I don't want to blow it.I have been practicing on 6" sch40.I learned a lot from my first coupon, such as the importance of the fit-up especialy the amount of land. Ihave been leaving a 1/16 gap but a friend told me to slam the joint together and bury the rod.Any sugestions would be greatly apreciated.I really need this job.Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I don't see how it could pass with no gap. Is your freind a certified pipewelder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therepairman1557 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I agree with the above. Even doing a 3g test weld you leave a 1/16 gap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurlyGeorge Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I have stick welded some preasure pipe at Archer Daniel Midland (ADM), and we always left 1/16" for the root pass. Never had one leak. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 18 years certified pipe welder local 198 Baton Rouge La. I always use a 1/8" land and a 1/8" gap when setting up for a welding test. control your heat if you can practice before the test it will help to just run beads overhead. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petere76 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 You "Key Hole" the root pass over a consistent gap. Hammer wire (rod) to dimension and support the pipe gap equally around the circumference. This action sufficently burns through the bevel and consumes the interior edge of the pipe. The next trick when you stick weld HP is picking the root pass clean so that the weld will pass inspection. This exercise makes the case for TIG root welds but we wind up working with what you have on the work site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 1/16" gap, amps at 95-105 using 1/8" E6010, with this heat you will need about a dime to nickle land. This is for a downhill root. If you are required to weld an uphill root you will need to run 80-85 amps and just a tad wider gap. If you jam the joint, as your friend suggested, you will have 'hollow bead', shows up BIG TIME on X-ray, and this will happen the majority of the time. We are allowed "0" I.P. in the root, ANY I.P. will be an X-ray failure. Welding is what I do, everyday. I work for a Fortune 500 chemical plant and X-ray welds is a daily thing for me. With 6" sch.40 pipe, tack top and bottom, 1 rod from top tack to bottom, 1 for the other side, 2 maybe 3 rods for the fill and 2 rods per side for the cap. Takes nearly 10mins to make that weld. This profession has been good to me and I hope it will be for you. Good luck. BTW, the procedure you are using is "Certified", the welder, once he passes the test is then "Qualified" Certifiy the paper ---- Qualify the welder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYBOY Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I always gapped the root pass. Never really measured it but Id say it was around 1/16"-1/8"..You'll get slag/air pockets if its butted up like that.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeatGuy Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I have pipe certs as well and have seen some people prep the pipe with no land and no gap, butt them tightthen run a zip disk or a 3/32 pipefitter disk from tack to tack to create the gap and land. I have tried it and did not like it every ones milage varies. brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I like to go with 3/32 land and 3/32 gap on an uphill sch 40 pipe, on sch 80 I may increase t 1/8 gap, run a keyhole that you can control. Use a whipping motion to let the weld solidify- (long arc then fill the crater) This fit up works with 1/8 inch diameter rod When learning it is best to start on plate you will save yourself allot of time preparing coupons this way, and once you have your vertical and overhead down you can move to pipe. Also on an uphill weld the 5P+ rod works better the 5P rod (red) is better as a downhill rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 The only thing I can add to all the great suggestions here is when I fit my pipe I like four 1" tacks at 12,6,9, and 3 o clock. I will grind the stops, starts and the face on the tacks to make a ramp, make sure I have good quality tacks, full pen so as I weld I run right over them. I start the root pass from 12 to 9 if going down hill or 9 to 12 if up hill. Then go to 3 to 6 or 6 to 3. Next is 9 to 6 or 6 to 9. Once I have done this I will take a flashlight and look in my root opening at 12 to 3 to see inside what the root pass looks like. If I need to fix anything I will do it now. Then close it up from 12 to 3 or 3 to 12. The fill and cover is from 6 to 12 all the way. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Qualify, certify, welder, weldOr. All words that i have heard in many smokey beer joints all across the USA. It 's the choice of careers that sends us down the road, hoping to "get sent out", looking for the next "big turnaround" or hoping to get on "the right of way" , "singlehand" meaning you don't bring your welding machine, the contractor provides that, or "rig" meaning you put your truck and equipment out there and work it. The local union I belong to Local 198 Baton Rouge La. has kept the pipeline welding jurisdiction to itself, as far as I know the only other local union that also does that is local 274 Jersey City , New Jersey. I personally have never sought pipeline work. The allure of working in a DITCH with heavy equipment moving pipe over my head, side boom dozers on the ditch bank, sometimes pulling your rig through the mud. Never appealed to me. I have taken a work order for a pipeline job, just to get a days pay from "Busting out" failing the welding test. How you dress, even how you wore your hat, could determine if you was going to pass the test or not. The pipeliners local 798 has a unspecified dress code, starched khaki shirts, starched levis, and LOUD color welding hats worn sideways. If you "shape up" dressed any other way, you would not have a chance to pass the test and be "certified". The WELDOR that can pass an "Arkansas bellhole" test, usually a 14" cupon tacked in four places and set up on a 45 degrees angle, welded downhill with "hippie rods" 1/8" or 5/32" E-6011++ usually knows what he is doing. Any WELDOR will tell you the test is going to be the easiest weld you are going to see on the job. Go out on any other jurisdiction but local 274's dressed like a boilermaker, blue shirts any kind of hat and you wont have a chance. Even if you got a ring with a framing square and dividers on it, No chance. Period. So knowing this I took a work order from 274 for a pipeline job singlehand, dressed like a boilermaker with a BLACK welding hat I "shaped up" meaning went on the job to test, Suprise! all them local boys were dressed like me! the 798 "dress code" rules did not apply there. I angled myself to the back of the line as all good "out of towners" do in Jersey and waited till a test booth became open, I was hoping that I could make the first day without testing and come back the next day, alas, they were turning them yanks around so fast that my turn came up right after lunch. I fit up with a 1/8" gap and had left the lands as the cupon came with, not caring to grind them. I ran the "hard side" which means the left side because i am right handed from 12:00 to 9:00 with my hood down, and showing off to to impress the inspector i ran the 3:00 to 6:00 with my hood up after I started the weld, welding by "earsight" That aint hard after you have burned a ton of rods. It was not easy to bust out after the inspector saw that I tell you cher`e! But somehow i managed to get out of there without passing the test. Use a 1/8" gap use 1/8" rods grind the lands to about 1/8" and keep your hood DOWN and good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 "BTW, the procedure you are using is "Certified", the welder, once he passes the test is then "Qualified" Certifiy the paper ---- Qualify the welder. " Actually, just the opposite. Welding Procedures can be bought from the AWS, API, or ASME which are prequalified, or proprietary procedures can be developed and qualified by engineering testing methods. A welder can then be tested on any procedure which has been qualified, and become a card carrying Certified Welder in that procedure. As a AWS Certified Welding Inspector, I have done quite a number of these as part of my job. I have seen a few good welders with years of varied experiences, and a lot of rod burners with one year of experience repeated twenty times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Never done any pipe, but I saw some done out at the college for the pipe students. They used welding rod stubs to set the gap, then started welding, the stubs would maintain the gap until they got to the stub, which I believe they popped out when they came to it. 1/8" rod 1/8" gap, 3/32"rod 3/32" gap, made it pretty easy to set up, course I also saw a lot of wedges used in certain applications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 I set up my pipe coupons using a stick of 7018 that is the size of my root opening- you knock the coating off then bend it into a V shape. Place one coupon on the bench, then put your gap rod on top of the bevel and place the other coupon on top of the gap rod and get the alignment just right (it helps to find the seam in the pipe as it will not be perfectly round) now you can place one tack then get the gap rod out and adjust the fit up, tack the opposite side then at 90 degrees, I would never leave a gap rod in until I welded up to it you would have a very hard time getting it out as the weld shrinks. Make sure you have good tacks 1/2 inch at least before you start to weld, if the root opening is not consistent cut the tacks and start over, poor fit up will not be easy to weld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.