Dillon Sculpture Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Interesting set up.http://buchen-goodwi...ton/IMAGES.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Furrer Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Interesting set up.http://buchen-goodwi...ton/IMAGES.html Indeed......now build an H like that and you may be able to go another 50 ton and go larger forming...or find an older four post press. There is a press at the local ship yard which has a moving head..it is ten foot wide at least and about three foot of clearance..they cold form aluminum for the hulls. Not sure of tonnage. Ric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Yeah they are cold forming... That press would do some cool bending but not much good for forging.. its only got a 5HP pump and you wouldn't want a fast mover for doing that kind of work... It looks like it was well built, I still dont quite get the guide set up and the reason for it but they did a great job with the tooling.. The frame could have been smaller and stronger if it was built from boxed plate rather than the double stacked I beam but but they probably used was was available.. Looks well thought out and executed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 That is very cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Interesting set up.http://buchen-goodwi...ton/IMAGES.html Danger, I have always admired your C frame press you built with the Enerpac system. I see some time in the near furture where I will have the time to build one and have just pick up a Enerpac electric pump to power it. I would like to pattern it after yours. Could you post a few pictures of it again. Also what would you think about extending the throat on it like the one you posted here? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted June 12, 2011 Author Share Posted June 12, 2011 That press was listed in the Anvils Ring for $15000. I to was curios about the guided ram, guess it would help with side load. As Monster said a better choice would be box tubing or even pipe. When I bought mine it didn't have the table just the roller and pin set up, I could throw a piece of plate on top but it restricted the stroke. I think the roller set up can be useful for deep drawing or long shapes. I wish I would have put a hole in the table I added, At this point I am considering burning a C frame out of the 2" plate I'm about to buy, maybe sell this rig minus the pack and cylinder of course. I would like at least 24" deep by 18" clear space with a large pass through, never know what your going to get into ya know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Ive got a 100 ton C frame press I built... its got 18" of stroke and 24" of room to the center of the C.. The side plates are 3", the thing weighs almost 5000 lbs.. The table is drilled and tapped for tooling and just bolted to the frame... if you remove the table then you just have the two frame plates with 10" between them... Only thing bad about this system is with the little pump I have and the big cylinder it is really, really slow.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Furrer Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I am building a 140 ton press ..will be 18"x30 of table and an "H" style with a 12" diameter cylinder and 12" of stroke..I had loads done by an engineer as I did not trust myself. I beam for the verticals and 18" "C" channel and some plate for the horizontals. The power pack will be a 28gpm two stage pump running off a 15hp motor...should move 0.6" per second to 45 ton and then 1/4 slower at full power. I have all the parts and hope to get it fabricated this year. RIc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 We really shouldn't encourage each other! I'm really digging your rig Larry, I think thats the ticket. A couple of changes I may make in mine, drop the C down lower behind the table and devising a way to roll it on its back so I can use it horizontal. Ric, the year is half over buddy, race you to the finish! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Furrer Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 We really shouldn't encourage each other! I'm really digging your rig Larry, I think thats the ticket. A couple of changes I may make in mine, drop the C down lower behind the table and devising a way to roll it on its back so I can use it horizontal. Ric, the year is half over buddy, race you to the finish! You win...I began my press 18 months ago in the real world and about five minutes after first using my 45 ton five years ago. It would seem I am all talk on this one. There is this one on ebay...almost big enough for my dreams: 565 ton http://cgi.ebay.com/24-Dia-x-180-Stroke-Hydraulic-Cylinder-565-tons-nice-/330547662330?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf62d0dfa#ht_1946wt_907 Ric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Danger.. The thing about moving the center of the C to center of the table is strength... Its easy enough to block up the work if you need all the depth, but at 100 ton this will spring that 6" of steel as it is.. in order to make the opening more square or the table at the center of it you would either loose stroke or capacity.. Of course you can make the spine of the "c" bigger to make up for that but you end up with a spendy frame.. I converted this frame, I bought it on ebay from Reliable tools down in LA about 6 or 7 years ago for $350.. Im not sure what it was being used for but its good and stout...Made a nice press... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 Spring 6"? It looks about 12" wide at the back. Block up, good point, I really like the room around the bottom die on the first press in this post. Would you post some measurements of that bad boy or just sell it to me for say $400 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 The c is 16" deep all the way around except where the table notch is. When I said "6" springs" I meant the two three inch side plates do have a little give, but only if you push it right up to 100 ton. I think this design is a good compromise. It would be better to have the opening flat back from the table but I think you would have to have a couple thousand more pounds of plate to make it as rigid as this is this way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Danger and Monster, you two guys are suffering from the dreaded "too much stuff disease". MY prescription is to pare it down to some kind of manageable state. In the interest of public health a u-haul van... no make that an 18 wheeler flatbed.. maybe a flat car train .. no it has got to be a SHIP!! Is coming to help your disposal of stuff. Address will come soon to send it all to ME!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Danger and Monster, you two guys are suffering from the dreaded "too much stuff disease". MY prescription is to pare it down to some kind of manageable state. In the interest of public health a u-haul van... no make that an 18 wheeler flatbed.. maybe a flat car train .. no it has got to be a SHIP!! Is coming to help your disposal of stuff. Address will come soon to send it all to ME!! Then you would be infected with this horrible disease. :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Its true.... I am a sick boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Furrer Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Its true.... I am a sick boy Danger and I corresponded about this..if not for Larry then he and I would be in the cross-hairs...keep up the good work Monster and don't tell my wife about the other tools I am looking for..... . Ric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 I really don't know what your talking about... Now back to the press! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 There is a show on tv i only got to see it once before my wife jumped in front of the tv and said "that is NOT me!!" it is called "horders" or something. it 's about folks that aquire and pile stuff up till it is at the level where it is dangerous to walk in their house. I can imagine they have store and locks full all across town too. Sadly this affliction affects blacksmiths too. I am not talking about COLLECTORS , they're lost souls. I mean the few smiths on IFI that actually do something are in serious danger of becoming sick puppies. I only wish to help you boys! i promise i will take good care of all you send to me and will not use it too much...too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Furrer Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 I really don't know what your talking about... Now back to the press! Once again I seem to have had an interesting conversation ..all alone. I have looked into accumulators and very rapid presses (very high volume at low pressure). Some industrial presses have this rapid feature... and I can see a few times it would be useful. BUT then again may 45 ton press with a foot control has this little electric eye on a slide so I can set the return of the cylinder to any level in its stroke. In this way I can size the operation when cold and when it is hot I can get the work between the dies and come right down in a very short time. If I had to do a full cycle every time I think the rapid flow would be needed. I see many styles of industrial hydraulic presses out there for sale now, but none are close nor cheap. Ric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Where I think a accumulator would shine is not in the rapid jogging or getting to the part but in punching or forming where you needed that "plastic flow" that you only get with a impact style blow. You know how the metal is... when its hot and you can keep it moving it stays hot and keeps moving... but soon as you start to loose the heat to the die surface it changes the flow dynamic and pressure required to do the work in a huge way.. Im not sure but I think with a accumulator set up right you could forge like the press was larger than it really was... do stuff that would take half again more tonnage moving at the "slow & steady" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve H Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 That's exactly what I found with the riveting, Larry. Being a closed die operation robs heat unbelievable fast. It's no wonder that alot of the old C-frame riveters were actually using pnuematic toggle linkages. They were able to throw down a very quick blow to 'get the heads up' before losing the heat- using nothing more than shop air. Try it cold and you'll have to quadruple or quintuple the pressures (Machinery's Handbook 1953). I've looked at accumulators to speed things up and came to the conclusion that I would just go for more HP than try new and confusing valving circuits. It really is the opposite of what you think you want in a press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeatGuy Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I have experimented a little with accumulators and believe that they would be better suited for hammers then for presses ( In the current context). Since the pressures are higher than with air you can us much smaller cylinders which allow faster cycle times. I have included the basic circuit that have been mucking with. A flow control could placed on the exhaust port to control the discharge rate of the accumulator which would make the system act more like a press.hydraulic-circuit.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 What about that idea Grant had with a kinetic accumulator, a flywheel. Did he get around to trying it? The problem I see with a normal accumulator is that We don't need extra volume when the die hits the work we need extra pressure. Unless the accumulator was charged with high pressure then isolated then used when a 2 stage pump kicks into low volume high pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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