clinton Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 So I got hired on two weeks ago and got handed mission impossible- get this job done in 2 weeks. Open truss bridge 106 feet, four sections- 2 right and 2 left. The biggest problem with this project is that there is no shop foreman, and I was not hired to be a shop foreman. I do want to get the job done and hopefully the shop will make money on it, that will keep me working longer. I am the only person in the shop that has the skills to do this work- I know how to fit up and weld the component's, I know what it takes to pass inspection. The 3 other guys can cut and punch holes and grind, so I am left to do the skilled labor. Well here are a couple of pictures of what we are doing, 15,000 lbs of iron in each section, the diagonal bracing is 5x5x1/2 inch angle, each one weighs 105 lbs, the T on the bottom has a 3/4 inch flange and 1/2 inch web the upper is 1/2 x 3/8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Who's the mannequin in the yellow shirt? He look a little supervisory. Or was that inpatients I saw on his face. I was going to ask how the new job was going.... I guess now I know. I hope the pay is good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fosterob Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Cool. Is it welded in the middle (freespan) or does it sit on a center support? Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I dunno, It looks like fun to me... Just tell the boss to send those other guys home and you'll take there pay checks as well.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeatGuy Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 In the second picture ... what make of welding gun is that laying on the floor ? Just curious I have not seen a gun like that before. brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Snappy job "for a carpenter"? I'm always impressed at the size of job that just a few guys can do! All the best on that job, Thanks for sharing. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 The mannequin is the general contractor- he is building a house for the customer, but to get the job he has to provide access over a creek in the event of a 100 year flood. Pay is only about half what I make if I am doing my "regular" job, but that is twice what the state pays me (unemployment) It is supported in the middle by a pier, they want this thing on-site before they start work on the abutments and second piers I would love to send the two monkeys home but I am not fond of grinding so they will have to stay- and yes it is fun I do like a challenge, I have 5 full pen welds on each one of these- 1/2 inch plate with ceramic backer, inspector will be in this morning to check fit up The welding gun is a Lincoln gun for inner-shield wire, the electrode is NR 232 (Lincoln) or referred to as T-8 (AWS classification) It runs at around 235 amps 21 volts so the long gun assembly is nice to have And yes it is a snappy job for a "Carpenter"- "Carpenter Extraordinaire" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainely,Bob Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 On a job like this For me there are really just two approaches. Either I do all the "smart work" and hand off the other stuff to the 2 tag-a-longs or I pick the smarter of the pair and teach him how to do simple fitting. If you feel that you`re the only one who can fit then the other two monkeys can do all your beveling and grinding back the rust. Concentrate on showing one of them how to do the things that slow you down or keep you from fitting(teach him to tack weld too). Once the other laborer see`s his buddy getting more of the "smart work" he`ll want to learn how to grind less and think more. The next thing to think about after you pull this rabbit out of the hat is with any follow on work you need to renegotiate with the boss/owner. Working by yourself pays one wage,motivating and educating your co-workers comes under the heading for management. If you`re doing a foreman`s job you should be drawing a foreman`s pay. I have been known to do just what you are doing now but I do it only once in order to demonstrate the true level of my skills and abilities. The next job that comes in means a trip to the office and a sit down meeting where I explain that the first job was a freebie to illustrate that I can not only do what I said I could do but also cause others to work at a higher level while doing it. Now the question to the boss/owner becomes "Do you want me to continue at the demonstrated level (foreman) with an increase in pay or do you want continue at the present rate as a fitter/certified welder and let you tend to the rest of the hands and oversee the job yourself". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 Very well put MB- you do understand what I am up against, & you give good advice to a person like myself. I do not have much tolerance for a guy that has been in a shop for 4 years and still has no cert papers, does not know what polarity he is running, does not know what or where the 3 phase power is, lets the supply of electrode run out, does nothing until the boss shows up, (the list goes on) Anyways I do have some more pictures to share, the inspector showed up this morning and he was very pleased with my fit up, well he did question the 1/4 gap but I assured him that it is what our welding procedure calls for and it is needed to get the full penetration (I did run a test piece to be sure) The inspector singed off the fit up and welding has begun, unfortunately we only had one machine set up to run the NR 232 wire, so I only got the root & hot pass in today, I still need to do one more pass to complete the weld (may go with 2 beads to cover it needs to be flush when finished) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainely,Bob Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Glad my words were of help brother. I know what it`s like to be stuck with a couple "dubs" and expected to salvage the job. I usually pull them aside and explain my version of how things are going to happen,then ask if there are any questions. Folks like your 2 co-workers are followers so they`ll recognize a "lead dog" when they see one. Sometimes the talk is as simple as "I do the smart work,you do the grunt work. When you decide to be smarter come see me". 20 years as a shipfitter/welder cut the small talk with the non-motivated to a minimum. I saved my breath for talks with the boss aimed toward increasing the numbers on my paycheck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Clinton, Looks like you are doing a great job with what you have to work with. I understand your labor problems. I had a former employer who's thinking was all I need is one smart man and four bodies to get a job done and make money. The problem for me in that case I was the only one who spoke english and the others did not, or barely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Just curious... is the innershield what was spec'd or your wire of choice? I dont have any experience running NR232 but If I had a choice I would have run this Dual shield... My wire of choice would be 1/16 ESAB 7100 Ultra... It has a very high deposition rate and welds glass smooth.. Dual shield is the only proses I have certs in though so any structural work I do gets treated that way.. I know a lot of outside structural work, buildings and bridges, they use innershield but working on cranes and inside stuff dual shield was all we ever ran... How do the two compare? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fosterob Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Down here there is one cert for wire welding structural, dual shield and innershield are the same cert. My preffered wires are esab core 8 and 7100 ultra dual shield. Core 15 is a good all around wire that is always in one of my machines. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingmaker3 Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 The next job that comes in means a trip to the office and a sit down meeting where I explain that the first job was a freebie to illustrate that I can not only do what I said I could do but also cause others to work at a higher level while doing it. Now the question to the boss/owner becomes "Do you want me to continue at the demonstrated level (foreman) with an increase in pay or do you want continue at the present rate as a fitter/certified welder and let you tend to the rest of the hands and oversee the job yourself". Can I hire you as a negotiator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted June 10, 2011 Author Share Posted June 10, 2011 Monster- the inner-shield is what I choose to run, I have never had much luck with dual shield. After spending half a day playing with the welder and still getting major porosity the guy that wanted to run dual shield gave up and set up another welder with inner-shield. The welding procedure can be written for either wire, the wire we are running is the Esab core 8. We got most of the full pen welds done yesterday, having two t sections clamped together back to back helped keep the straight. I did however make myself look like an idiot, when the boss asked me how long it would take to do the welding I said it could be done in half a day- well 2 days later he is wondering what happened to the half days work, all I could say is that it is a good thing I am not the estimator because we would have taken a loss on that work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 I am wondering if you changed your polarity. Almost all innershield wires run straight polarity, dual shield runs on reverse polarity. That might explain your porosity problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 The big thing with dual shield is its got to be kept in a warm dry place in a sealed bag... . Once the wire is out of the bag it starts to absorb moisture and if it sits out very long you get the dreaded "worm tracks" Nothing you do will get rid of them till you bake the wire at about 350 deg to get rid of the moisture.... I never leave dual shield wire on the machine... You set it up and do your thing then pull it and put it back in a sealed bag.. doing that Ive never had any problems.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve H Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Unbelievable, Larry, you're spot on. Drying electrodes, not just stick, is in fact a code requirement but I'd wager less than 1% of fabricators even bother. I too had alot of porosity with my efforts at dual shield until I dried an old spool in our big rod oven. Too high a voltage will also cause problems. Clinton, looks like a nice project. Are they going to UT or RT your full-pen welds? While we're on the topic; I got my CWI in D1.5 (bridges). If you follow it to the letter you'll find it much more stringent than D1.1. My favorite: are your welding machines calibrated every 3 months?? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 I didn't even know you could calibrate a welder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 Hw- you bring up a good point and being how it was not my polarity but someone else I did not bother to check, but rather let him flounder with it until the owner came out and changed the polarity for him. Still lots of porosity- I think it could well be a moisture issue (as monster noted) the shop is only one giant sand dune from the Monterey bay, and with no rod oven this could well be the problem. The clown that is trying to make it work thinks that it a shielding gas problem, and the gun assembly is bad- the boss does not want to pay for a new gun at this time and I was told that he was quoted $400.00 for the gun that my catalog has $157.00 price. The other welder was having nothing but trouble with his machine today, it is only a 200 amp machine that I told the boss would not do the job and suggested using the 250 miller- no contact tips but we can spend half a day trying to run dual shield in it Steve- it is just a visual inspection this is a private residence that we are doing the job for, all the bridges being built in Ca are box girder construction- post tension concrete (public roads) A few more pics of the full pen welds and we fit up the saddles that will support the heavy timbers to make up the road deck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 I know a few Mexicans you might replace your useless hands with. Oops, i dont want to start all that over again. Innershield, so old fashioned, is it just what they had on hand, or a choice? Are you trying to weld with it in all positions? If you can run innershield vertically UP ,at those amps , i am impressed! Good luck and vent your frustrations here, not in the bosses office. If they try this again, you will be the SUPERVISOR and the foreman will be UNDER you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Looking over my last post, perhaps i am showing MY ignorance. The only innershield i have seen used was in a shipyard, downhand position only, a big spool of wire as big as a coathanger, and NO shielding gas.The shops here use flux core, mig, and stick rod. Being so old and rusty I would have gone with 5/32" low hydrogen rods from a NEWLY opened can and welded it in all positions. See how old fashioned i am! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 'NEWLY opened can ' Here the best you see is a plastic wrapped box, based on the price though it should come in a velvet lined box. If we see rods in a can we presume 'Antique' Clinton, Look like a big bite of work there! Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 Yes this is a good size job, we will be putting the truss back together on Monday before we complete the rest of the welding, this will help to control the distortion that will be caused with all the heat input. I am hoping to make enough money at this job to be able to make it up for the Western States Conference, I think it will work out if I do not get myself fired and I can save some money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Were i welding that structure, I would be sure my ground is no more than ten feet from my arc. I would have a helper or a rheostat and be burning E-7018 low hydrogen rods.I would skip around on the entire thing to aviod distortion, and do all the flat and vertical welds i can easily get to, then we would roll the piece. I hope y'all got some lifting equipment more than a forklift, so the roll is easy and controlled. good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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