clinton Posted June 12, 2011 Author Share Posted June 12, 2011 Yes we are rolling the parts when it is an option, less heat input when you weld flat- general rule of thumb is weld flat when it is an option. And yes we do move around this is not my first rodeo I do know a few things that can save me a major straightening operation. 7018 is way too slow for this amount of welding, so it would not be a first choice for me We have two fork lifts to do the positioning, no over head crane it was sold at auction when the previous owner of this shop went bankrupt, I worked in this same shop in 1993 so it is like a home coming to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 I beg to differ with you about E- 7018 being slow, its an operator issue. Factor in the time spent looking at pinholes, changing parts, changing spools, ETC. what you are building is no longer a fab table, sit n weld, job. It has become an athletic event, I would much rather pull a whip than a gun hose. And who hasn't seen the fool pulling the machine with the gun hose. I am no kind of purist on welding or blacksmithing, sometimes, i go back to stick rod because it can be as near infallible a process as welding science can devise, I cannot always see a line of porosity where the flux core wire is no longer flux cored in that stretch of wire. It is only visible after i have chipped it, and don't it seem to be ALWAYS in a spot where it cannot be easily grinded out. So factor in at least one arc gouger episode. With my E-7018 rods NEW from a 5lb plastic box, inspected for broken flux and burned within the hour of opening. I leave the flux that does not FALL off by itself in curls behind. Welding with filler metal and a heat source, either OX-ACET gas fire, or arc is in every sense of the word, a casting process. I strike an arc and start building a puddle of molten metal with a "FISHEYE" of slag moving about. a tiny almost microscopic black hole that sucks you into a time warp and the day passes so much faster than if you were not making the fisheye dance from bevel side to bevel side with a bit of pause on each side and a slight move up, or across the weld. the deposition rate is up to you. Position is yours to decide as to practicality and experience. I have reached a broomstick with my stinger duck taped to it to weld from impossible, to easy on a big pipe, in a very crowded pipe rack in an operating refinery, and NEVER made an arc mark on the shiney insulation on the pipes around the weldsite. And i will confess about blacksmith cheats sometimes a mig bump peened looks jest like a rivet. That will likely get me banned from IFI . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve H Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Ha! Old & Rusty, that's great- I'm with you on the Stick. Any fool can pull a trigger but it takes a real man to work a stick electrode . OK- I'm being biased here- I'm stick certified but not wire. It is true- you can get greater deposition with wire but whenever I need more rod, I moved up to a 3/16" dia. or 1/4" which can get you a 3/8" fillet in one pass if you know what you're doing. There's a reason why virtually every stick welding joint configuration is prequalified- It has a 100 year history of satisfactory performance. FCAW, GMAW and TIG welding have not. What does that mean? If you have a code job that requires your welds to meet a certain spec ie; tensile, etc., stick welds are EXEMPT from procedure qualification testing (for most structural grades). All other processes must go through the wringer with tensile, bend, radiographic and etch tests. Last I checked those tests cost an average of 600$ per joint. It's the reason why I 'stuck with stick' for our bridge fabrication- less regulatory headache. Will AWS ever exempt Fluxcore or MIG from the same requirements? Perhaps, but I think it may take another 20 years. Larry- it's true: welding ovens and machines need to be calibrated.. Although- an old fridge with a light bulb makes a great rod oven too. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I have AWS D.1 and ASME IX certs on plate and pipe. I have welded miles of pipe with a GMAW root and FCAW-G fill, cover and have done the same with 6010, 7018 and TIG. I believe with all the choices you have today with welding processes and filler metals, it comes down to choice. Choosing the right process, type of filler metal and dia. for the job at hand can really make or brake a job. It all has a place. Take the job at hand here 30 years ago or even into the 80's they would have maybe been using large dia. 7024 to get it done. Clinton here made a good choice and more important it is what he knows and is comfortable with. Choosing a welding process where you have to train weldors can be sometimes as bad as choosing the wrong welding process, depending on how large the job is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Ha clinton! we all hope youall are so pleased with this job that many more come in. See if CN railroad will hire y'all, now you got pictures.There is a fabricator near here makes truss bridges for them. The complete truss fits on a standard flatbed trailer and is fabbed with 6" wide flange beams. He has an all you can make contract, and i hope you guys can do the same. Oh! Be sure of your ground connection, especially for wirefeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 I had to go toe to toe with the inspector yesterday- he inspected the welds on Friday and did say something about a little bit of undercut (maybe 1/4 inch on a 14 inch weld) he said that it was ok due to the small amount. Well he shows up again and starts looking at the welds more then asking lots of questions, the welds are ground flush due to tight fitting of the parts- he can see a line where the weld meets parent metal- there is no under cut or lack of fusion- if you can not feel a groove when you stick something in there there is no defect. I convinced him that we could continue to grind and get rid of it- there was still build up there but we could get our fit up so we stopped grinding. He said oh ok and left Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 I had to go toe to toe with the inspector yesterday- he inspected the welds on Friday and did say something about a little bit of undercut (maybe 1/4 inch on a 14 inch weld) he said that it was ok due to the small amount. Well he shows up again and starts looking at the welds more then asking lots of questions, the welds are ground flush due to tight fitting of the parts- he can see a line where the weld meets parent metal- there is no under cut or lack of fusion- if you can not feel a groove when you stick something in there there is no defect. I convinced him that we could continue to grind and get rid of it- there was still build up there but we could get our fit up so we stopped grinding. He said oh ok and left Remember arguing with a inspector is like wrestling with a pig in the mud sooner or later you will realize they like it! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Good practice for if you start working for the railroad, they will have inspectors too. It seems all across this continent wooden r.r. trestles are being replaced with steel . Get some of that work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 Yes HW- you are right on that one, this is my first time working with this inspector, the guy that used to do most of the inspections in this area moved to Vegas, and most of the work that I have done in the last 10 years has been out of the area and mostly light gauge. You know how inspectors are, they all have the one pet peeve, and until they get to know you and the quality of your work they tend to keep a close eye on things. I do know a good deal about inspection and I am very careful about leaving anything that may not pass. We got the two trusses put back together (no easy task) after welding the 5 full pen welds on each one- surprise things do not want to line up- it stayed straight but with all the welding it got a little tweaked. here are a couple of shots we placed the 2 trusses together to do the welding on the saddles that will carry the glue lams- this gets a partial pen on the bottom then a 1/4 inch fillet on the vertical both sides, leaving 3 inches in the middle with no weld And the boss wants this out of the shop today and I am down a man (hurt back) I will do my best and should make up some time on the next two trusses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcostello Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Yes HW- you are right on that one, this is my first time working with this inspector, the guy that used to do most of the inspections in this area moved to Vegas, and most of the work that I have done in the last 10 years has been out of the area and mostly light gauge. You know how inspectors are, they all have the one pet peeve, and until they get to know you and the quality of your work they tend to keep a close eye on things. I do know a good deal about inspection and I am very careful about leaving anything that may not pass. We got the two trusses put back together (no easy task) after welding the 5 full pen welds on each one- surprise things do not want to line up- it stayed straight but with all the welding it got a little tweaked. here are a couple of shots we placed the 2 trusses together to do the welding on the saddles that will carry the glue lams- this gets a partial pen on the bottom then a 1/4 inch fillet on the vertical both sides, leaving 3 inches in the middle with no weld And the boss wants this out of the shop today and I am down a man (hurt back) I will do my best and should make up some time on the next two trussesWhy ground closer than 10'? Never heard this before, but I am new at this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 You can ground a steel structure anywhere on it you want. You want to be sure it IS grounded. keep an eye on it.no accidents like someone pulling THEIR lead will disconnect yours. If it sparks it is not a sure groung and weld quality will decrease and with wire feed you might be tearing the gun apart for no reason because of some rust or paint under the ground clamp. Its just one of those old welder things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 Well I did manage to get the trusses out of the shop, that was fun. The "plan" is to move them out using a forklift at each end and drive straight out, the problem is that one of our lifts is not rated for this. It did work but he had his back wheels off the ground for the ride out, I would have done the rigging a little different if it were up to me but the boss wanted it done this way so I just stayed at a safe distance. I still have a good deal of welding to do on the first two trusses, it was not going to be easy to get at the welds on the inside when we had them together in the shop so I will be setting up the portable rig today and the other guys will be doing the assembly of the other two trusses, we have a week to get it all done and this guy does not want any over time involved. Hmmm I do not see it happening but I will try to get it done as quickly as possible, the problem is like with any job if you rush it you will have rework and that will cost more than doing it right the first time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Hopefully the guys learned enough on the first sections to get work done with less supervision. Best of luck. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share Posted June 17, 2011 I had a pretty much non productive day, I set up the mobile rig with basically no welding wire to work with, got the machine dialed in, ran about 3 welds and had no more wire. The boss took off to get more and got back 3 hrs later, then every thing went from bad to worse, I had the same electrode the same size same manufacturer and could not get a decent weld at all. I tried to get the other welder to come and look at my amps and volts while I was welding so I could see if I was within parameters, but he was busy with the boss "trying" to assemble another truss. I did the last 2 and I know how they go together, these two guys did not have a clue and got all the parts mixed up, but we have to get it done today (I guess he gets paid in portions so he has to show the completed stages to get paid) So I got pulled off to do the assembly took me an hour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Man, drag up. Your talents are wasted there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share Posted June 17, 2011 I am looking for another job O&R, things are slow in the metal framing that I have been doing for the last 15 years. I may get laid off when this job is done but I can not drag up until I find another job that would mess up my unemployment for sure. I did some research on the Miller welder that I am running and there is a lead inside that you can change to adjust the puddle consistency when running constant voltage, I will try that today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Reversing the polarity? Maybe. There is lots of structural fabricators here hiring now. You wont find the wages as high as callyfornia but the deductions on the checkstub will be less too. Many construction jobs are kicking off soon. Both for union and non union contractors. The climate, well it is HOT!!! The food is great, and we tend to have fun all the time. Come on down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted June 18, 2011 Author Share Posted June 18, 2011 Its not the polarity O&R innershield wire is DC -. The miller welders are nice but they require some fine tuning there are 3 different leads on this machine that can be switched to control the puddle consistency, one for stiff puddle, one for wet puddle and one for really wet puddle, the second one is recommended for welding mild steel- they come from the factory on the first settinghttp://www.millerwelds.com/om/o4407u_mil.pdf I got lucky and picked the right owners manual, I did not make a note of the model of the machine, and they are all not the same. I did get a chance to switch the lead before the boss showed up, but I got pulled back inside to work on the assembly of the other two trusses, the other 2 guys had to go do an installation so I had to take charge of the assembly. The other welder can not figure out how it goes together even though he helped on the first set, he just goes and puts bolts in that have to be removed I had to hold his hand all day or he just spins his wheels. The boss did lighten up on me after he told me how he does not want to be an a hole, I told him that I understand he has a business to run and I did not come there to make friends but to make him money. After that he was like my best friend (whatever his people skills in the shop are poor) I wish he would just stay in the office or out in the field finding more work. I would love to come down there O&R I don't mind the heat and yes the food is great. If things do not pick up soon around here I may take a drive on down there and see what is available Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Its not the polarity O&R innershield wire is DC -. The miller welders are nice but they require some fine tuning there are 3 different leads on this machine that can be switched to control the puddle consistency, one for stiff puddle, one for wet puddle and one for really wet puddle, the second one is recommended for welding mild steel- they come from the factory on the first settinghttp://www.millerwelds.com/om/o4407u_mil.pdf I got lucky and picked the right owners manual, I did not make a note of the model of the machine, and they are all not the same. I did get a chance to switch the lead before the boss showed up, but I got pulled back inside to work on the assembly of the other two trusses, the other 2 guys had to go do an installation so I had to take charge of the assembly. The other welder can not figure out how it goes together even though he helped on the first set, he just goes and puts bolts in that have to be removed I had to hold his hand all day or he just spins his wheels. The boss did lighten up on me after he told me how he does not want to be an a hole, I told him that I understand he has a business to run and I did not come there to make friends but to make him money. After that he was like my best friend (whatever his people skills in the shop are poor) I wish he would just stay in the office or out in the field finding more work. I would love to come down there O&R I don't mind the heat and yes the food is great. If things do not pick up soon around here I may take a drive on down there and see what is available Are you still having problems? I own this machine. There is a selection for voltage sensing and non voltage sensing wire feeders. What type of feeder are you running? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 I did not get to try the machine out after changing the lead, I should get back on it tomorrow. It is the voltage sensing feeder, I know there are two settings for CV on this machine, I have it set to the voltage sensing CV, the other setting is for use with remote that requires an additional cable- I do not have the remote cable and the wire feeder does not have the plug either. When this machine is set to CV the amperage knob controls the voltage and you adjust your wire speed to control the amps. I know that the electrode I am running runs good at around 200 amps and 21 volts, the suitcase has a digital read out that will show volts and amps, but open circuit settings are not the same as the readings you will get when welding, that is where an extra set of eyes is handy. Did I get it right HW? Or am I all mixed up on something here? Also did you look at section 5-10 in the attached owners manual? Have you ever changed this on your machine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I did not get to try the machine out after changing the lead, I should get back on it tomorrow. It is the voltage sensing feeder, I know there are two settings for CV on this machine, I have it set to the voltage sensing CV, the other setting is for use with remote that requires an additional cable- I do not have the remote cable and the wire feeder does not have the plug either. When this machine is set to CV the amperage knob controls the voltage and you adjust your wire speed to control the amps. I know that the electrode I am running runs good at around 200 amps and 21 volts, the suitcase has a digital read out that will show volts and amps, but open circuit settings are not the same as the readings you will get when welding, that is where an extra set of eyes is handy. Did I get it right HW? Or am I all mixed up on something here? Also did you look at section 5-10 in the attached owners manual? Have you ever changed this on your machine? Clinton, My machine is actually a 302 trailblazer and is 2 years newer than the one your are running, but I am familar with the one you are running. On my model they did away with the arc stabalizer like on your machine. You want to run it on lead 29 for a stiff puddle. Remember when you are running self shielded fluw core which you are running straight polarity which means 2/3 of your heat is on your material and this is going to give you a wetter puddle to begin with. If you look at your manual everthing referes to GMAW or MIG this would include gas shielded flux core FCAW-G not FCAW self shielded flux core which your manual does not refere to which is odd. My machine is a AC/DC model so it has a polarity switch on the face panel. If your machine is a DC only then your wire feeder needs to be connected to the ground terminal - and the ground to the Mig or wire terminal + and select voltage sensing feeder like you have allready done. You are right the amperage knob does control the voltage. Also if you are running longer leads you will have to increase your votage to compensate. Depending on the size of your cables, If I am running 200ft of lead I have to bump my voltage by 3 to 4 volts. Good luck I hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Clinton, you got a list of hassles on that job that would have had me GONE! The one that seems to be the most problematic is the amount of support you are getting from the front office, zero to none. the other TEAMMATES seem to want you out of the shop when they TRY to fabricate. It is too much to get over with for a paycheck. I sincerely hope you have not told him about CN job possibilities. Those clowns cannot fit the lid on a garbage can. Finish the job at hand, if you can do so without an accident or angry incident. and BOOM OUT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 HW- you bring up a good point here- I may be running the wrong polarity, I am really not familiar with miller welders and may have hooked it up wrong, but it was running pretty good before I ran out of wire, so I am baffled on this- maybe he will put the other welder out there this week and it can be his problem. O&R- I like your advise and it is my plan to drag up as soon as possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 HW- you bring up a good point here- I may be running the wrong polarity, I am really not familiar with miller welders and may have hooked it up wrong, but it was running pretty good before I ran out of wire, so I am baffled on this- maybe he will put the other welder out there this week and it can be his problem. O&R- I like your advise and it is my plan to drag up as soon as possible Clinton, I need to read a little more carefully. I did not pick up the part about running out of wire and it running OK. It would not be the first time that I have pick up a new spool of wire with a different heat number on it and not have it run the same. If you are not familar with heat numbers. It is a number that designates one batch of wire to another in a production run. I have scraped a whole pallet of wire because of this problem. Ironically it happened to be ESAB, but gase shielded flux core. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Give me a stick rod everytime. except aluminum, as far as I know there is no good stick rod for Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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