I've read that Indiana 4th Amendment case (having been born and raised in Indiana, I'm still always kind of interested in what's happening back there), and there's more (or maybe less) to it than most folks understand. (The court didn't actually approve warrantless searches.) But I guess you're right that we've gotten awfully far afield. I don't mean to pour fuel on the fire -- so I won't.

I firmly believe that this thread has no end to the pro/con of immigration. What the law is, and what reality is, will never meet. The political divisiveness in this country is exacerbated/exploited by the media to their monetary gain, and to the politicians who are willing to say anything to their constituents to get re-elected to their pensions, thus a vicious circle that is never ending.

That being said, doing the right thing for the welfare of those who are immigrants and balancing the law will always be subject to political expediency. Even the Supreme Court can't figure it out, and is seemingly unwilling to address the issue completely.

So, where does that leave us as citizens and employers of this country?

My basic tenant is to treat everyone humanely...legal or illegal. I don't like the fact that some people are here illegally, while others went through the system as prescribed by the law. This country is built on laws that have served us well for 200+ yrs. At the same time, this country is also built upon immigration, and those who make and administer the laws have not kept up with reality. That reality is peoples from other countries want to better their lives and come here to do so. I can't blame them. If I was in a third world country and saw all the opulence this country has to offer, I'd do the same to better my life and that of my family.

Ranting on...

John

Dagnabit John!!

Just when I was enjoying all the snarlin'' and snappin' in this dog fight, you go and throw a big ol' sloshing bucket of well-said rationality on 'em . . .

Then again, maybe it'll rile 'em up some more . . . I'll just wait a round a bit . . . .

Big brother is watching all the time. Watching you watch this. http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/05/2011531125012985362.html

not to change the subject but I personaly wouldn't lease my shop out to anyone, last time I let someone use my shop they moved some stuff and made a mess, but it's your shop do what ya want.

by the way John Wayne and Henry Fonda were good friends and worked together even though Wayne was very conservitave and Fonda a bleeding heart liberal, it's because they never dissused politics with each other, food for thought

Discussion of politics is not allowed on these forums, this has been an admittedly passionate discussion of law, there is a difference

On Sunday, May 22, 2011 at 8:08 AM, Steve Sells said:

The future for the south is hiring out work to legals, undercutting our ability to work and support our families? wonderful.

I enjoyed it when everyone was coming down on the fruit growers in California for hiring "illegal immigrants" how it was taking jobs..... bla bla bla. So a very large grower guaranteed everyone who wanted a job....a job. 93 non ethnic/ illegal immigrants showed up for their new job. Before lunch of day one 28 quit, at the end of the day another 9 walked off the job. Morning of day two only 13 showed back up and only 6 lasted the day. The reason people don't have a job is because they don't want one. People arn't willing to "lower themselves" by taking a lob they feel is beneath them or work a job because it's "to hard." I have owned 3 companies over 25 years I start guys out at $15 an hour min here is $9.80 and it's the same crap........they can't hardly make it past the 2 week training and they always ask.........when's payday, show up late, have to be told what to do.....I will go thru 9 before I find one who is not great but acceptable. I worked in a field that has codes to protect from fire and if they were ever enforced by the authority having jurisdiction they I'd have more work then I could ever handle. Every year people die and 4500 buildings are lost because these codes are not enforced....so for me illegal immigrants arn't steeling my jobs....... city managers, fire departments, and lazy food inspectors are. But I don't cry about it. I get up, I go to work and I fight for the work I get. I bid against companies who dont pay taxes, workers comp, insurance, license or several other required costs, and i still make a living and I still aupport my faimly. So I say get ofg your butt and do what you have to if you wanna support your family, hustle, hustle, hustle. .....the world don't owe you anything.

This guy has a real nice shop up in Montreal. He rents it for $5 an hour. He didn't go into too much detail about it though. Makes me wonder if it's for any smith or just people he trained? Interesting deal though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOx7m3D6guY

George

The video mentions that the fellows that rent space are former members of the forge courses he offers. The outfit is Forge de Montreal..The chaps have an excellent video showing the forging of a Biscayne trade axe It was posted, here, in early September. That video is very impressive and informative it is worth a view.

Hammerdom, a member on this site has worked with them.

SLAG.