MattBower Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I had my friend with access to a couple spectrometers run some more scrap steel samples -- a rail anchor, and a piece of new (within the past few years) Nicholson file. The first rail anchor I had tested came out around 1050, and I wanted to see if that held true in this instance as well. (This post is "dedicated to Thomas Powers" because Thomas and I have talked scrap steel chemistry, and specifically rail anchors, in the past.) And I wanted to double-check the oft-repeated rumor that new Nicholson files are basically 1095. Here are the results. -------RA-----File C **0.63***0.94 Mn *0.79***0.37 P **0.008**0.014 S **0.027**0.053 Si**0.20***0.25 Cu *0.24***0.01 Cr *0.13***0.22 Mo *0.02***0.003 Ni *0.08***0.02 Sn *0.009**0.005 Nb(Cb)*0.026**00 V **0.004**0.006 So yeah, new production Nicholsons seem to be very close to 1095, with a little silicon and chromium. (I'm guessing Cooper Tools -- the guys who own the Nicholson brand -- keeps a close eye on steel quality, and keeps the chemistry within a pretty narrow range. They'd just about have to.) And now we know that rail anchors can run at least as high as 1065(ish) -- or as low as 1050(ish). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Thanks. Good to know, as I've always wondered about the files. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robakyo Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Greetings Matt. Is a rail anchor "J" shaped? Would that be acceptable knife blade and/or hawk material? I've read that some Smiths use them for improvised hardies or fullers. I can't remember for certain. I've also read that they are a Bear to flatten out. Thanks for the information. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 There are different kinds of anchors. Both the ones I had tested looked about like this: http://www.unitrail.com/wood_composite_ties/spring_anchor.html I forged a hammer drift out of one, by hand. It's good, tough steel. It doesn't move that hard under the hammer compared to, say, O1 or similar blade steels, but if you're used to 1018, yeah, these will get your attention. Anything between 1050 and 1065 should be pretty tough, and there's enough C to take a pretty good edge -- but probably not hold it for all that long. Should be good for hawks and larger blades that'll see impact. Not ideal for blades that'll do tons of slicing, but it'll work if you don't mind having to resharpen a little more often. The carbon content is low enough that you'll probably have to think about water or brine quenching to get maximum potential hardness. Maybe a fast oil. With that said, remember that just because we have two anchors in the 1050-65 range doesn't mean they'll all be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robakyo Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Thanks for the clarification Matt. The link showed the RR spring clip I am familiar with. I was under the false assumption that it was "J" shaped. Looks like an upside down "J", a completely different animal. Thanks also on the advice on quenchants. Water or Brine. Is canola considered a fast or slow oil? I guess the best bet would be to progress from oil to water on samples of the metal and test for hardness. Again, Thanks for the valuable advice. -Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Note that they are still about twice as high in carbon as an HC RR spike though! Thanks for the update; it will go into my files for the next time it's needed! Thomas Powers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 Warm (~130 F) canola is pretty fast. Maybe not quite as fast as a really fast commercial oil like Parks 50 or Houghtoquench K. You could start with canola and move to water or brine if you don't feel like the oil is giving acceptable hardness. Yes, Thomas, these anchors are much better steel than spikes. The guy who ran these for me did two spikes that the had picked up locally. The results on those were: unmarked, older spike C - 0.30 Mn - 0.80 Si - 0.25 Cu - 0.025 Cr - 0.10 Ni - 0.12 Sn - 0.02 V - 0.002 newer spike. He said it was marked MC. Not sure if that's a maker's mark, or what. C - 0.25 Mn - 1.00 Si - 0.23 Cu - 0.32 Cr - 0.10 Ni - 0.11 Sn - 0.02 V - 0.026 The Cr and Ni are consistent enough that I think they're not there by accident. And the V in the second one is high enough that that's probably not an accident, either. Interestin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knots Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I made a small bending fork out of one of these spring ties, This material is really tough and made a really nice one. One thing about the ones that I used is that the surface pits quickly when at forging heat. I suspect that the surface layer metal is loosing carbon. I don't know what the proper name for the other J hook type is - the ones that are about 7/8" square, but they make good general use cold chisels. I have a couple that I forged more than 20 years ago that are still in use. On these I harden and heat treat only the ends and leave the chisel body soft. I mainly use the "S" steels for hot work so haven't used them much for hot work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 those are great clips Clay Spencer uses them for tooling for his power hammer I have used them as bolsters for hammer making the Brian Brazeal method they fit the need and work. I need a few more. have to go see the guys in the rail yard. There are different kinds of anchors. Both the ones I had tested looked about like this: http://www.unitrail....ing_anchor.html I forged a hammer drift out of one, by hand. It's good, tough steel. It doesn't move that hard under the hammer compared to, say, O1 or similar blade steels, but if you're used to 1018, yeah, these will get your attention. Anything between 1050 and 1065 should be pretty tough, and there's enough C to take a pretty good edge -- but probably not hold it for all that long. Should be good for hawks and larger blades that'll see impact. Not ideal for blades that'll do tons of slicing, but it'll work if you don't mind having to resharpen a little more often. The carbon content is low enough that you'll probably have to think about water or brine quenching to get maximum potential hardness. Maybe a fast oil. With that said, remember that just because we have two anchors in the 1050-65 range doesn't mean they'll all be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZIG Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Pandtol or panadorl clips. There was a post on here that had the exact name and picture of them. Forgive my spelling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Note that they are still about twice as high in carbon as an HC RR spike though! Thanks for the update; it will go into my files for the next time it's needed! Thomas Powers Thanks for replying Thomas! When I saw the subject I was afraid you'd left this plane on us. I feel MUCH better now. Good to know what I've got in the pile too. Frosty the Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 D'oh. Sorry about that, Frosty! I didn't think about someone possibly taking it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 No I'm going to auger in with the plane! No leaving early! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.