Old N Rusty Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 not sure where you go or what do to about starting a topic, would love to rant about college grad artists that think i am just "hands".and the one that got a pic on the cover of a blacksmith publication that was an expensive quarterly magazine "way back when ". and they used his name to attribute it, at least they called it "welded steel". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmHorus Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Not alot of artists these days are as hands on as they used to be. They think they can get by directing others to bring about their 'vision' and forget that the people actually doing the work have been doing it for years before the artist came along. When I was in art school for Photography....I know I know.....I was older, I went places to get photo's, hiked back in the woods or drove out of my way to get something unique. The rest of my 'classmates' sat around in the dorms and regurgitated the same old images over and over, and didnt understand why the teachers were more interested in what I was doing than what they were. One of the teachers asked to use one of my pieces to show his Wildlife Photography Classes HOW they should be shooting, not from 200 yards away at a speck but up close so you can see the feathers and fur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 I spent a year working for one of the top swordmakers in the USA back in the 1980's. His work was all done by hand and was rated "investment quality". It cost in the thousands in 1980 dollars too. Well one day we had an *A*R*T*I*S*T* stop by and as he's examining a piece so perfect that you can almost hear it hum with optically perfect lines all done by hand---no jigs or milling machine and polished so that if you look carefully you can see the grain structure in the D2; he say "well that's nice; but I'm an *A*R*T*I*S*T*!" I think I'd prefer to be a craftsman myself after seeing tons of ART where the artist had no control over their materials. I've seen some great art; even great *recent* art, (saw one painting of 3 hay bales in a local field and realized it was a picture of the crucifixion---painted by a guy whose sect doesn't allow paintings of people. *great* art!); but so many artists seem to be all ego and zero skills. "Cultures who admire a poor philosopher over a good plumber will have neither theories or pipes that will hold water" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted April 5, 2011 Author Share Posted April 5, 2011 well! there is some sypathy for this old "hand". how about the a****e who decided if i got a photo of his railing, installed in his house i would use the photo to sell copies! and they like it so much they want the only one! Sir i have NEVER copied a piece of work, my own, or ,anyone elses! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WmHorus Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 heheheheh Once again I don't claim to be anything other than a wannabe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 You should offer to make them a nice clean digital picture for insurance purposes and offer to be an off site backup for that picture as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 I like to remind "artists" that to qualify for the name they actually have to CREATE something. People that DESIGN things are designers. Creating a drawing for display is different than creating a drawing for someone else to build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 This reminds me of a railing in a hotel that I was taking a picture of and it was JUST SCROLLS......... The manager rushed out and ragged on me, saying this was copyrighted and I couldn't use the images for reproduction.............Gimme a break....:P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratel10mm Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 On my first blacksmith course I had it made clear that you DO NOT take a photo of another artist's / craftsman's / etc. work without asking first. It's just ettiquette. From the point of view of owners getting up you though, that seems a bit extreme. Personally I'd call myself an artist before a blacksmith for 2 reasons - mainly because I'm just a beginner, secondly because in Oz there are still qualifications to earn to become a blacksmith. I hope one day to be able to refer to myself as an artist blacksmith or blacksmith artist & feel comfortable, but I won't do so in the company of blacksmiths I respect until I feel - been told - I've earned it. For customers, it's different as telling them you're just starting out is not going to get you the job! And properly on topic, I agree with the statement that to be truly an artist taking credit for your work, you MUST have done the work, or at least the great majority of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted April 6, 2011 Author Share Posted April 6, 2011 OR.... ( i got a few rants on this) how about the stained glass artist who insisted i make a large window frame, 14" x 8' , to HIS SPECs, no changes, so being new at this, and having a table, 18'x8' i thought i could fab the thing. I agreed to take on the job(not commission, JOB!) For a fixed fee , BEFORE DOING SOME SERIOUS MATERIAL COSTS ANALYSIS! turns out the T BAR I needed was only available from San Francisco, Calif. and they shipped only a minimum amount, so I had to order somewhat more than needed for this job, i did get some T BAR, completed the job.The extra material is still on my shelf, because the ARTIST used a picture to convince a backyard welder to underbid me, and make the next commission on on his driveway. Oh, the SPECS i was having issues with; the frame that supports all, is made of 2" x 1" x .16g. tubing! the church is in Beaumont, TEXAS. Just about the worst possible climate for steel that is unpainted ,I never figgured out how to paint the INSIDE of this tubing. It has been some years since the job, if that heavy stained glass window has not fallen down into a pile of broken glass and T bar by now it wont be long.I have since learned to suspect folks who got BIG plans, but no money, ask the traffic cop for a BREAK , not me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainely,Bob Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Having worked with a few "conceptual artists" I feel your pain brothers. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted April 6, 2011 Author Share Posted April 6, 2011 And another one, ( i am enjoying this)The hairdresser that wanted product shelves and decided to be there to ""give me directions, as we created it"" just so happen the news paper sent a reporter and a camera person to MY shop that day. Guess who hijacked the interview, and whose picture (behind a welding hood ) was published with the ARTIST smiling in the foreground? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted April 6, 2011 Author Share Posted April 6, 2011 and the BIGGIE! I have been fortunate enuff to have had three MAJOR "commissions" from an ENTERTAINMENT corporation based in Anaheim , California, and Orlando Florida. The first fone call was from a squeeky little mouse like critter, who was from then on unavailable for calls, all calls from then on were refered to a fellow i think was called "GOOFY" or it seemed so. If you take one of their jobs expect a big envelope to come special delivery in it, for you to sign and OBEY are the rules you have to follow ; all work becomes the property of said corp. No image of work can be published w/out permission,You will be forbidden to use their NAME in all discussions about said work. No touchmarks. Never get caught copying that work for anyone else, and on and on. more legal papers than a mortgage. I could fill a box with complaints about design, paint worries, and FOREMOST the delivery date! But the little piece of paper that contains the finest five words in the english language, "pay to the order of" was fine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 First and formost I consider myself to be a craftsman. I cringe when I am refered to as a artist. I have been fortunate to have work with several artists on scupltures and have been their hands so to speak. It is true they get all the credit and you are the guy standing in the back ground. I do enjoy going to a unvailing and standing off in the corner an listen to people speak about the work and know they are talking about my work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Sometimes dealing with , owners, architects, decorators, etc who feel that they are the only creators of what we do is one of those little rubs we have to live with..........If they need to get their egos massaged that bad who gives a....................;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted April 6, 2011 Author Share Posted April 6, 2011 And,this decorateur that told a client he wanted her interior stairs to be "Rust". He found the perfect smith to fab and sand blast............and install. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny O Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 When I was a student a NAU in Flagstaff I took a sculpture class, the prof had a commissioned piece, rather large, made of aluminum. He made a little mock up for presentation. The finished sculpture covered about 30 sq ft, and was 15 or so ft high. Well, he couldn't weld, Being the very humble certified welder fitter fabricator that I am, I figured I would offer some input. After about 120 lbs of wire, and one argon poisoning scare, we erected it in a Tucson Az Park. I didn't get paid, I didn't get an asterisk. Of course I did not do the whole thing, there were three of us, his knowledge of fitting and welding was near nada, but he was strong. The University provided the studio, consumables, labor, and opportunity for this guy. Although I did get 12 credits of Field Work experience. This gentleman had at his command student labor, university space, consumables, tools, etc..at no cost to him. I never asked what he was paid for the piece. It was fun to be a part of it, I don't regret it, when I find some pics I will post one. So ,did Calder's, or Henry Moore's laborers get an asterisk ? I don't think so, it was called apprenticeship. At some point is it just free labor? just a ramble, no point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 When I was a student a NAU in Flagstaff I took a sculpture class, ....... it was called apprenticeship. At some point is it just free labor? just a ramble, no point. Do you remember what park it is in? I would like to go look at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willis Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 My problem is with the so called 'juried' groups. I make utilitarian things. Specificaly early colonial housewares. I am not an artist by any means nor do I claim to be, I dont even claim to be a blacksmith. Just a guy who has a hobby making things out of iron. But just who are these juried folks and where do they come from? How do you get 'juried' and what does it mean to be 'juried'. Why does a panel of 'juried' artist have to judge my work before I can display it at certain events or even donate it to be auctined at a charity benefit? My wife and I both have been denied entry to certain Living History events, because we were not 'juried', even though our 1814 Living History group has appeared in PBS documentaries concerning the War of 1812. (I took up iron work to support that hobby by the way) Ok, I'm done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny O Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Do you remember what park it is in? I would like to go look at it. Reid park near the Zoo, the animal one, here is a link to the satellite view:http://maps.google.c...000849&t=k&z=21 E.22nd & Randolph way, turn into park.The City was to maintain the neon, but faltered after it was vandalized a few times. Title "Door With Waves", by Ohara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny O Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 How do you get 'juried' and what does it mean to be 'juried' Your dilemma peaked my curiosity, so I Googled away. Here's some tips on this web site.http://www.artistsne...s-juried-shows/ The quandary about "what is art" is a philosophical one, but the "Art Show" is usually a commercial venture, big commissions, small space. It becomes a commodity, unless one does not want to sell of course. From what I just read at the linked web page, it is at times a larger task preparing the application, than creating the "art" for juried show. It is definitely a goal in its self to get into a juried show, not in my future. I will stick to the co-op. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted April 7, 2011 Author Share Posted April 7, 2011 i am amazed this topic was not discussed before i post my rants or has it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 There are a few that do their own work "Artist" seems to be a dirty word :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny O Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 "Artist" seems to be a dirty word I agree, it has some sort of stigma attached to it. The more "prole" term of craftsman, or maybe even skilled craftsman seems more humanizing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old N Rusty Posted April 7, 2011 Author Share Posted April 7, 2011 Always treat everybody with respect in your buisness dealings, it dont matter handle they truck with the are a potential paycheck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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