Firescreen under construction

[FieryFurnace]

It has been well nigh a year since I made a fireplace screen. The last one I made was the big 3 foot x 4 foot screen for a client in Louisville, last May. I sold the sample screen that I carry around to craft fairs, so I need another one for this years season. I stick with a small standard size for craft fairs. The price has to be kept down and the size needs to be standard to increase the chance of selling it outright at a show. The screen I am working on now is 2 feet tall at the center, and three feet wide. Front-piece material is 1/4"x1" flat bar. It is hammer textured and the joints are mig welded. The welds were ground, heated and textured over. Here are the pictures that show yesterday's progress.



This is the design. Or does four sides drawn on a table count as a design? LOL The curve at the top took me some thinking to figure out. However, I finally cracked the method and got it drawn. Some of you may know what that straight line in the middle of the drawing was for!


I decided to let the top and lower bars extend past the side bars with flared upsets. I used an upset method I saw on Andrew Molinaro's promotional video. (Mr. Andrew's website)
Double hammers while the piece is clamped in the vice! MAN that works GOOD! And it's a ton of fun! LOL


I spent 5 hours and 40 minutes on the screen yesterday. This includes "design" time, forging and fabricating, making a vice-held bending fork, and doing a few test pieces.





At the end of the day!


So what do you think? How is my time compared to what I've gotten done? Am I working too slow or am I progressing at a decent rate? Be honest! If I'm slow, tell me. If no one tells me straight, I won't know where to improve.

Fire away!

[space hammer]

6 hours total time ain't bad, does that include installing the actual screen? That always takes awhile. I get $350 for a simple chop and weld firescreen, so you shoul be able to get twice that for one with forged elements like that.
I've found Firescreens to be pretty reliable business for us, as everyone has a different sized fireplace, so it's hard for a customer to just find one that fits.

[Don A]

I'm the last person in the world to critique someone's time

Those joints look great. Texture looks nice too.

Do you think the upset flairs on your bottom piece will give you any problem getting a flush fit with the hearth? Or maybe you have planned that into the design.

Everything looks good so far.

Keep us posted,

Don

[FieryFurnace]

Lets see!

The handles for the screen are 5/16" square stock. They are circular with a reverse twists and are forge welded. They turned out nicely, but the first pair I tried I wasn't paying proper attention and twisted BOTH the SAME way! So, back to the band saw and start all over again. Upset, scarf, center mark, twist, reverse twist.....whole lot of wasted time. However, it happens (to some dumbos like me it happens more often,) and regardless of whether or not it was wasted time it still goes into the time figuring for the screen.



The handles are held on by two 1/4"x1/2" FB brackets. A matching flare is on the front side of these brackets and a simple chisel line runs down the center of the bracket.



The feet were the killer. I burned up two of six pieces I cut for the legs. Two others I spent a heap of time forging out and then finally decided I didn't like them.
Finally I decided on a matching upset flare like on the lower and upper firescreen pieces, with a center chisel line that matches the handle brackets.
Sorry no pictures of that yet. I'm going to get back on it tomorrow and hopefully finish it out. Now I just have to make the backing frame (1/2"x1/8" FB,) and assemble everything.

I was a bit spacey today and it cost me in time.

I spent another 5 hours and 30 minutes on it today bringing my total time up to 11 hours and 10 minutes. It looks like I'm going to have a 15-18 hour screen maybe. <_<

[FieryFurnace]

More progress on the screen yesterday. Now I have to rivet the back frame to the front frame. I should get that done tomorrow and I'll then post completed pictures with total time, materials, and intended price for professional review!

This is the rear view of the screen frame. I added a lip as you can see. I like this lip as it hides the edge of the screen and it VASTLY improves the overall finished look of the screen IN MY OPINION! I certainly do not hold that MY method is THE method. A lot of awesome screens have been produced with no lip and they blow anything I think about producing, out of the water.





This is my "cowhorn mustache" picture! hahahaha!



The handles!



The feet are attached but I still didn't get pictures of them.

[gearhartironwerks]

It seems to me that you've done a really nice job on the screen. My only artistic suggestion would be to do offset corners as the frame is forged/hammered and rivets (copper/steel) would look nice in the corners. Also, you can tig/mig weld behind the offset corners just to cover yourself...Ok, I cheat. If a hammered look is desired, (w/o rivets) then weld, grind and then use a coal forge to color/scale the face frame. I usually make two frames to hold the screen in. For example, if the face screen is 1/4 x 1 1/4", I would make the rear frame 3/16 x 3/4" centered on the face frame and would sandwich the screen btw and mig weld the sides/edges. Normally I work on the the corner of the work table and clamp two sides for alignment. After that, I rotate and complete the welding. I use 6 mesh/18 ga. screen from Western Wire...spendy, but, in 20 yrs, I've never had a call back for failure. Also, there is no stretching of the screen involved as they will roll the screen flat.

I use black Guilders Paste to color the metal frame. The screen is painted flat black and the frame is wire wheeled, then done with Guilders Paste and clear coated w/satin lacquer. This is just a suggestion as there are many Guilders Paste colors. To me, black seems to be what most clients want.

John

http://www.gearhartironwerks.com

[Marksnagel]

Dave, you are waaaaaay out of my league and your work is always a pleasure to see. As far as time lines for work I have nothing to base it on other than the Pennsylvania Dutch saying; "The hurrier I go, the behinder I get." and my own life.
When I try to speed things up in life to match what others are doing, I make mistakes which cost me time and sometimes money. Too many irons in the fire is almost a guarantee that something is going to get burnt. Not just in blacksmithing either. I feel that you will be able to temper your time to where any mistakes are few or slight therefore optimizing your time.

Each one should test his own actions. Then he can take pride in himself, without comparing himself to somebody else, for each one should carry his own load. Paul<><

Mark<><

[FieryFurnace]

Ok finished pictures are due!

Sorry I haven't gotten to that yet.

I went with 1/8x1/2" for the lip around the frame edge and the backing piece. I should have went heavier and next time I'll go with the 3/16"x3/4" as suggested.
I've got a few visible welds which are the result of poor design and execution. However, they are on the back of the screen and are not in your face shouting "LOOK AT ME I'M MIG JOINT!" Little consolation I know!

So I'll shut up and just show the pictures!









These are the visible welds! One behind the feet because I riveted the feet on BEFORE I riveted the back frame on, so I could not put a rivet down in the lower corners. One behind the handle brackets.




My edges have this lip on it that hids the sandwiched screen and gives an overal finished look!


And that's all folks!

Now this is the painfull part. Timing and subsequent pricing!
This screen took me 20.5 hours to complete. That includes all mistakes, tool making for the screen, test pieces, design, reruns....everything.

I have $114 in materials. This includes grinding wheels, gas to pick up metal, coal, sandpaper,clear coat, raw steel, rivets.......everything that went into making the screen.

I figured that up and to make $30.00 an hour (lowballing compared to the advice I've been given on here and elsewhere) this is a $720 screen. OUCH! What was that someone was talking about on here??? Oh yes perceived value! I may have to give that a try! LOL

So...
Thoughts???

[brian.pierson]

Dave,

A beautiful piece and one I would be proud to own(if I had a fireplace).

One comment to throw out. You might consider putting your touchmark on the bottom of the cross member. If you leave the top "open" you might be able to sell the customer some customization, i.e. their name, the house name, or even a phrase. If you can sell it by the letter/length, it could sweeten the pot and up the perceived value. It is just a thought that came through my mind.

I know this one is spec and you want to use as advertisement. It makes sense to get your name out in front of people especially when the friends see it in a home. I also know there is logistics involved in trying to do custom work at a show.

just a thought and good luck,

Brian Pierson

[HWHII]

For a young man of your age you are doing some outstanding work. As you grow and do more you will get faster and smarter and your profits will grow. Right now you have a ideal situation to work in with low overhead, so I am sure you are glad to make the $30hr. I look forward to your posts keep them coming. Buy the way I am curious how you did draw the arc. I know how I would have done it, but would always like to learn another way and I do not know what the line is for.

[pkrankow]

Just think, next time you can build the elements to make 10 of these, and assemble them onto different frame shapes. I bet you can make the attached elements in little more time than you took, and after assembly you probably will be at a total time per screen that is much less than this screen took.

I also agree that having the top "reserved" for the customer's name is a good idea. What is nice is that you riveted the current piece on, removing that to rivet a custom made piece on is easy, and can be done on site at a show if you plan ahead for it. You may want to put a second maker's mark on the backside as a plan for this.

I really like the finished product. Very nice.

(a quick Google search shows mass produced screens in that style at $500+ for a 30 inch screen)

Phil

[FieryFurnace]

Yes I know the price of chop and weld firescreens are. I wonder if potential customers do though! LOL I guess I'll find out this weekend. I'm going to a one day Italian street fair kown as the Knoxvill Opera. I've got to set up at 5 AM Saturday morning and demo from 10 AM till 10 PM. It's going to be a long day! It would make it worth it if someone bought the sreen! LOL Or ordered one. An order would be better because I have a show on the following weekend as well. It would be difficult to put together another screen in that time!

Thanks for all of the kind complements. I do realize that I am not anywhere near on par with professional blacksmiths yet, but I enjoy my work, strive to work hard, and hopefully will improve with time and practice. I' love to be able to get an apprenticeship for a few months maybe this summer or during the upcoming winter. I believe I would advance much faster.

I do like the personalization idea and it is one I will most likely adopt in the future. I think that would be a good selling point. Right now I do not have a letter stamp set which is unfortunate. However, as soon as I can get my trailer painted, I'll be caught up with expenses for a while and may be able to splurge a bit and buy some smaller tools.

Once again, I really appreciate the help, support, kindness, and comendation of all you blacksmiths out there on the web!

[Don A]

Dave,

Is that the "Knoxville Opera's Rossini Festival and Italian Street Fair" you are going to?

Believe it or not, I have forged there myself. One of the founding members of our reenctment group at Ft. Loudoun was a supporter of the KO. He had passed away, but his wife was still connected. Their first opera that year (2006?) was "Daughter of the Garrison" (or something like that). It apparently had to do with the British military, so we were invited to set up on site. Not just the blacksmiths, but the whole Independent Company. We shared a lawn with a Confederate Army group. Several time through the day, both our guys and their's would blank fire their muskets. I loved watching all of those touchy-feely city folk duck & cover when one of those Bess muskets went off between the big buildings on Gay Street.

You will definitely have a diverse crowd in attendance. I certainly hope the weather is nice for you. Have plenty of your cards handy. I don't know how well you'll do with on site sales, but there will be some people there with deep pockets, and who knows what they might need.

Good luck,

Don

[HWHII]

Dave, I am not sure you realize it or not, but the fact that you are selling forged items makes you a professional blacksmith. ;)

[FieryFurnace]

Mr. Don:
That's the one! We are leaving this afternoon. Come up and stop by!

When I was doing the CW reenacting I had a friend with amazing reaction time. Everytime someone shot of a musket or revolver in camp close by, he would instantly drop like a rock. You should have seen the look on spectator's faces. I miss reenacting a lot! I hope that I can save enough money to regear and hit the 150th Gettysburg in 2013.....maybe even Shilo in 2012. They are trying to do Pickets charge full scale (aproximately 30,000 reenactors,) and Shilow is on the original battlefield. These 50ths will be the hieght of CW reenacting.


Doesn't quality and personal skill level come into play before you gain the title "professional?" LOL

[CurlyGeorge]

Dave, don't under estimate yourself like that. I am seeing "quality & personal skill level" in the pictures of your work. You just need to get comfortable with the fact that you're a craftsman. My old high school shop teacher used to say "there is a difference in craftsmanship & crapsmanship!!" Yours, my friend, is craftsmanship. :D

[FieryFurnace]

:D Thanks! I do my best!

[windancer]

Great work!
I have a friend who searched for several years for the perfect screen. The fireplace is domed way down low on the sides and ain't no way are you gonna 'find' one that fit.
The one he liked was $6,000.00. Needless to say he did not have one built.
We built a plywood mock-up of the opening and I enlisted my friend Bill Cottrell's help.
Took us a couple of short days and it was far beyond what my friend was expecting.
Bill but the frame from a single sheet of 3/16ths, then cut the doors to the same curves and Bill added a pine woods scene on each door.
I added a steel pine cone for the door closure latch and my friend was completely blown away. He still mentions it every time I see him. His wife likes it, too.

I am just starting to do a little blacksmith work, mostly roses, feathers, spike knives, crosses, you know, all the stuff we start with

I do know that my friend would never consider hearing me say I am not a blacksmith. We built what he wanted, and more, and as far as he is concerned I 'are' one.

You, too, after seeing your screen finished up. All the extra stuff you did to make it more appealing, and trying for the 'blacksmith' look does indeed make you a blacksmith. Maybe not the most experienced, maybe not the fastest, but a genuine blacksmith none the less. I would be proud to have my name on that work and you should, too.

Keep at it- you have everything you need to do quality work. Congrats!