Luke March Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 Hi, I recently acquired a Canedy Otto Royal Western Chief hand crank blower for a pretty low price, and I'm planning to restore it to much better working condition. You can see pictures of it so far right here: http://s169.photobucket.com/albums/u228/Luke_SkyMarcher/Blacksmith%20Shop/Forge%20and%20Blower/Canedy%20Otto%20Royal%20Western%20Chief%20Blower/ My big question right now has to do with the bushings/bearings. They are very worn. Some are not so bad, but several of them are very bad, and not even round anymore. They appear to be made of bronze, so my initial thought was to get some bronze bushings, machine them down to appropriate sizes, and tap them in with a hammer. However, after doing some more research, I realized they are probably babbitt bearings. However, from what I have seen in my brief time of research, most babbitt metal is lead or tin based... Does anyone know what kind would be most appropriate for the blower bearings? One thing worthy of noting is that the bearing for the shaft that actually attaches to the hand crank seemed to be lead, both in softness and color, as opposed to the other bearings, which are a bronze color. Also, most of the information I have found online for pouring babbitts has to do with pouring pillow block bearings one half at a time. I haven't seen anything about pouring a bearing all the way around a shaft that has to be precisely positioned at both ends... Does anyone have any resources or pointers to try to do this? Thanks so much, Luke Quote
dablacksmith Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 if theyre bronze colored theyre not babbit ! babbit is tin and basically the same color as lead ... ide replace them with oilite bronze bushings .. if you can ide even replace the one babit bearing ... and the worn out bearings you have are one of the reasons the champion 400 blower was so popular (they used ball bearings).have fun! Quote
OddDuck Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 Hey Luke, I'd measure the shafts and go to the hardware store and just get replacement bushings for the whole works. It is for your use, after all, and function is the important thing. They would probably outlast you, and are easily replaced if they do wear out. You can, as far as I know, pour babbit around the complete diameter of a shaft, and just press it out. Smoke or graphite the shaft first and the babbit shouldn't stick. I've made some progress on the project we were discussing, and I have some new pics, and as soon as I get a new monitor for my home computer (I hope the heck that Goodwill has one, the durn thing is too old to put a new one on) I will be posting them here. I can't seem to upload them here on my work computer. Quote
Luke March Posted January 25, 2011 Author Posted January 25, 2011 if theyre bronze colored theyre not babbit ! babbit is tin and basically the same color as lead ... ide replace them with oilite bronze bushings That's actually good to hear: it means the bronze bushings I ordered from McMaster last week will actually be of some use after all! I'd measure the shafts and go to the hardware store and just get replacement bushings for the whole works. It is for your use, after all, and function is the important thing. That's pretty much what I'm planning to do now, except that the hardware store did not have the appropriate sizes, so I ordered some from McMaster, which I will have to lathe down a little to get them to fit properly. My other issue which I'm trying to figure out has to do with the first gear (the bronze one). If you look in some of the pictures, you can see it's pretty badly worn - the teeth aren't "gear" shaped anymore, and they're very sharp on the edges. From research/measurements/etc., I'm pretty certain of the right size replacement... the trouble is finding one exactly the same (i.e., you can't) The closest I found was a gear from Boston gears which I can get for about $35. The issue is though, it's steel rather than bronze, and it's only 1/2" wide rather than 1" wide. Now steel does have more tensile strength than bronze, so I wouldn't be to worried about it breaking... but I am a little worried about what it might do to the other gears. Does anyone forsee any problems coming from this? Quote
dablacksmith Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 well the other gears are iron to iron so i dont think you will have a problem tho the reason they used a bronze gear is to have something that gives in the gear train ... but if you can find a gear that will work ide use it! good luck! Quote
Luke March Posted February 13, 2011 Author Posted February 13, 2011 Well, I finally made some progress on this. I replaced all the bushings today, and also machined a shaft for the new gear. You can see the comparison between the old shaft and gear, and the new one. And they all fit nicely together in their bushings. But there's a problem. The one bushing was indeed babbitt, but I replaced it by getting a bronze bushing, machining it down, and pounding it in. The trouble is that the other end of the shaft (the part sticking up in the above picture) does not line up with its bushing, which is what I was worried might happen. Now it seems I have a few options. I could find and order babbitt metal, learn how to use it, pound the large bushing back out, and try to pour one so that everything lines up. OR, I could remove the second bushing from its mounting, and just let the gear be supported from one side (It is a 2.7" long bushing, after all) Quote
ciladog Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 I can’t imagine that the shaft is that misaligned and I guess you have a lathe since you made the new shaft. So why don’t you try getting an oversized bushing and turn down the outside diameter with the bore off-center in a 4 jaw chuck. Quote
Luke March Posted February 13, 2011 Author Posted February 13, 2011 Yes, I have a small lathe, but sadly, I do not have a four-jaw chuck. The small end of the shaft seems to be off center by about 1/8"-3/16" I think the reason it is misaligned is that they didn't bother with boring it out to be centered, they just left it as cast for the babbitt. I suppose it would have been more surprising if it did line up. :rolleyes: Quote
ciladog Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 Yes, I have a small lathe, but sadly, I do not have a four-jaw chuck. The small end of the shaft seems to be off center by about 1/8"-3/16" I think the reason it is misaligned is that they didn't bother with boring it out to be centered, they just left it as cast for the babbitt. I suppose it would have been more surprising if it did line up. Well if the shaft is out that much I guess my idea wouldn't work anyway. Quote
Luke March Posted February 16, 2011 Author Posted February 16, 2011 I've decided I am going to go the route of pouring the babbitt. The babbitt metal has been ordered and is on its way. I did up a basic diagram of how the shaft would be set up in the housing before pouring. I intend to center the shaft by having its other end held in its bushing - that way it will line up perfectly. My question is, what sort of things should I be worried about doing to make sure it comes out right? Do I need to pre-heat the housing? (I don't have a torch) How do I keep the threads from being filled in? I know I should coat the shaft with soot or graphite so it won't stick; are there any other "prep" things I should know? Thanks so much, Luke Quote
Bob S Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 I've decided I am going to go the route of pouring the babbitt. The babbitt metal has been ordered and is on its way. I did up a basic diagram of how the shaft would be set up in the housing before pouring. I intend to center the shaft by having its other end held in its bushing - that way it will line up perfectly. My question is, what sort of things should I be worried about doing to make sure it comes out right? Do I need to pre-heat the housing? (I don't have a torch) How do I keep the threads from being filled in? I know I should coat the shaft with soot or graphite so it won't stick; are there any other "prep" things I should know? Thanks so much, Luke I would just screw in a bolt to seal up the hole. You should preheat the shaft so that the babbitt won't chill and will flow all around and give you a good bearing. A propane torch would be enuf to preheat the shaft. I recently poured new bearings in a Little giant 25 and did't coat the shaft with soot or anything and didn't have any problem getting stuck. The babbit doesn't have to be perfect to work fine. Also you will have to build a dam around where you don't want the babbit to go. Don't use anything water based or it will spatter. This is a well done babbiting project. Watch it a few times for tips. http://www.anvilmag.com/smith/011f2.htm Quote
Luke March Posted February 20, 2011 Author Posted February 20, 2011 Well, the Babbitt pouring was a success! Thanks to all who gave advice on this project. After I finished pouring the bearing and getting everything all set, I went ahead and painted it. When I was wire brushing off the rust, I noticed a sort of dark red paint in multiple places - both on the body and on the fan. I also noticed a few of the letters seemed to have some gold paint on them, so I figured I would try to paint it to get as close to "original" as possible. First I sprayed on a few layers of "rust" primer, since even wire-brushing didn't get everything off, and then coated it with a dark red paint made for farm equipment and machinery. I finished off by brushing on the letters with gold model paint. Here are some pictures of the results. Before and after: Some more pics: If you want to see more pics, before, during and after, you can see them HERE Luke Quote
OddDuck Posted February 24, 2011 Posted February 24, 2011 I missed this post, I guess. Looks great Luke! How's it turn and how's the air supply? Quote
Luke March Posted February 24, 2011 Author Posted February 24, 2011 I haven't put it to a real test yet, because I have to come up with some sort of mounting solution first (before I add oil) I did make sure that it is turnable without oil, so I'm hoping that the addition of oil will make it easy to turn. In the little test I did (less than 1/4 turn with the hand crank) it seemed to produce a pretty good amount of air, even though I haven't added a sealant between the two shells yet. Quote
Luke March Posted March 7, 2011 Author Posted March 7, 2011 Well, I finally got the chance to try it out this weekend. After adding some lubricant (power steering fluid is what I had on hand) and working it a bit, it loosened right up and turns beautifully. It gives a great amount of air supply, with so much less noise than the vacuum I used to use! It really is a joy to use; I was up till one-thirty last night forging just so I could use it (well, and make my first real attempt at a knife ) When I'm turning it about normal speed and let it go, the handle keeps turning a good 1 and 3/4 turn on its own. Quote
Bill in Oregon Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Luke: For gosh sakes, man, you were meant to own this blower. Congratulations on your patience, persistence and skill in restoring this fine old machine. Makes me ashamed of my rusty, leaky old No. 40 Champion ... Quote
hwp Posted April 24, 2011 Posted April 24, 2011 Well, I finally got the chance to try it out this weekend......... Congratulations on the restoration, looks really nice. I have the exact same model (unrestored) and had a couple of questions. What material did you use to create the gasket for sealing the gearbox? What weight gear oil did you use? Did you encounter any leakage around the lower bolt hole/bolt head? My first attempt was without any gasket...big oily mess. My fix was to use Permatex gasket maker. That worked but now I have the leak from the bolt hole. I guess I'll Permatex that also. Do you think packing material such as cotton might have been used originally? My gears tend to whine so I'm hoping the right weight oil will cure that. All the gears seems to be tight and in alignment. As an aside, I have a question on the orientation of your gearbox on top of the case (one of your pictures). Is it mounted this way? If so, the oil filler cup would need to be upright which would also make the blower exit upright also? Thanks for any info you might provide and congratulations again on a great restoration. HWP. Quote
Luke March Posted May 4, 2011 Author Posted May 4, 2011 Congratulations on the restoration, looks really nice. Thanks man, it's probably the nicest-looking tool in my shop I have the exact same model (unrestored) and had a couple of questions. What material did you use to create the gasket for sealing the gearbox? Actually, I didn't create any gasket for the gearbox. Leakage hasn't seemed to be much of a problem, at least not yet. What weight gear oil did you use? I'm not sure what the weight is... I just used some of what was on hand, which happened to be steering wheel fluid. Did you encounter any leakage around the lower bolt hole/bolt head? If it is leaking there I haven't noticed it. Perhaps the way I painted it (after tightening the bolts) sealed it? Or maybe it is leaking and I just haven't noticed. My first attempt was without any gasket...big oily mess. My fix was to use Permatex gasket maker. That worked but now I have the leak from the bolt hole. I guess I'll Permatex that also. Do you think packing material such as cotton might have been used originally? Hmmm, I'm not really much of an expert on what these originally had. I believe I've read somewhere that there were some leather seals in places on some blowers. My gears tend to whine so I'm hoping the right weight oil will cure that. All the gears seems to be tight and in alignment. My gears still make noise. I imagine they make some noise no matter what oil you use. As an aside, I have a question on the orientation of your gearbox on top of the case (one of your pictures). Is it mounted this way? If so, the oil filler cup would need to be upright which would also make the blower exit upright also? The gearbox is mounted the way it is shown in the picture. Actually, it's the "pet cock" that is aligned with the blower exit. The oil fill hole is mounted pointing upwards; if you look, it is between the "Y" and "A" on "Royal." Thanks for any info you might provide and congratulations again on a great restoration. HWP. No problem, and thanks. ;) Quote
hwp Posted May 8, 2011 Posted May 8, 2011 Luke, tks for the info. Its funny how perception is. My blower has a different type oil fill and petcock. The petcock (I'm assuming that's the drain?) has a little funnel shape on the top so I assumed it was the oil fill location. The other opening has a spring loaded brass pull cap with a little grooved insert that pulls out and I assumed it was the drain. Would it matter which is located upwards as long as it holds oil and the gears are lubicated? On mine, the gearbox is currently rotated counter-clockwise so as to make the petcock on top. Quote
Bob S Posted May 8, 2011 Posted May 8, 2011 Would it matter which is located upwards it would be perfect if you were in Austrailia. Quote
Rob Gorrell Posted August 15, 2011 Posted August 15, 2011 Hi Luke. I am a newbie and also have this blower. I would like to take it apart and try to tune it up but cannot figure out how to get the housing off. Is it some sort of press fit?. I got the fan side off easy enough. It is the smaller shell on the handle side. Am a missing something simple? Rob Quote
Luke March Posted August 15, 2011 Author Posted August 15, 2011 Hi Rob, If your blower is the same as mine, there are three bolts that have to be removed. Also, the fan has to be taken off the shaft, and the crank handle has to be taken off of its shaft as well. It ought to come off fairly easily after you loosen and remove these; but if yours is anything like mine was, loosening them may be the bigger problem. I hope that helps. Luke Quote
Aljeter Posted October 22, 2011 Posted October 22, 2011 I have this blower also. I just got it at an auction for $60. It was locked up, but I got it working. The problem im having now is the "pet cock" doesn't work. I was wondering if anyone knew where I could get replacement parts for it? Being the hard headed person I am. I got the gears moving just a little and decided I would try to force them to move some more and broke the cast handle mount in to 3 peices. Quote
pkrankow Posted October 22, 2011 Posted October 22, 2011 The petcock looks like a pretty standard pipe fitting, it also looks like a rebuild-able variety that the tapered valve can be removed from the body and cleaned up. Replacing it with a ball valve would be quite easy. or a google search for "brass drain cock 1/4 turn" http://www.magnetoparts.com/drain_cocks.htm Phil Quote
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