ZIG Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Can't remember the exact name or material some had quoted that these crooked clips are made of. My question is : I am shy of many Hardy tools I Need. Hot cut just to start with. Have any of y'all. Used these clips To make Hardy tools or drifts or well, just what kinda things have y'all Had success with. I recently acquired several, of these clips and read some about them on here but they are about 5/8- 3/4 thick And possibly 6-8 long straightened out. I recall They were of rather quality steel. But without a power hammer I'm gonna swimg my arm off getting them to the shape I need. Any advise or past practices y'all have had using these clips would be Appreciated. I'm currently getting over surgery and can't work. So I've been researching all.I can. Till I can get back to the shop. Hate being So vague. But getting.cabin fever and with several hundred of these clips. They will be my main source of tool material. If I get some good information on them. Steel type, best tools to make outta them. .thanks in advance. For your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYBOY Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 If I remember correctly I saw a spec anylisis on one and it was around 1060. I have saw several knifes made from them including one tanto blade that had a nice hamon. So Id say 1060 is about right. I made a hot cut chisel from one once and it worked just fine. They are a brute to forge out by hand, be forewarned ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I had one analyzed and it came back 0.51% carbon with plenty of manganese and a little silicon. So basically 1050. It's certainly a far cry from something like H13, but it'll probably do just fine with a little care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walking Dog Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I've made several tools from the track clips with good success (several center punches, several spring fullers, twisting wrenches). The material definitely has significant carbon, is tough to forge, and will crack if you handle the forging or heat treating carelessly. I suggest to treat it as though it were 1060. I forge at high orange, oil quench, and draw it back to magenta going on purple for a center punch. (The fullers and the twisting wrenches I just forged and normalized.) Good luck, and have fun with it! Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Folks they *range* in carbon content depending on manufacturer and use level: they are generally somewhere between 40 to 60 points. A good medium carbon steel and so good material for lots of different tooling. Not my first choice for small cross section items that get buried in hot steel, (slitters, punches,...); but they make a heck of a better knife blade than an HC RR spike! Let's not fall for the "my vehicle is black---therefore all vehicles must be black" reasoning like so many junkyard steel lists tend to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Absolutely right, Thomas, and that was actually the reason that I started getting things analyzed: I didn't trust the JY steel lists and hoped to prove that no one else should, either. (And in at least one case the results did suggest exactly that.) But I think there are only two RR anchor manufacturers going in this country at the moment -- could even be just one -- so there may not be quite so much variability in this particular case. I wish I could get a big enough sample to really prove something (as in, analyze enough clips to be able to generalize), but that's not practical. I do have a sample from a second clip that was sent to me by someone halfway across the country from me. I haven't gotten it looked at yet, but I'm curious to see how it turns out. I'll certainly post it here when I know something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 At last a "kindred spirit"! Of course most of us aren't using "new" clips... I'll see if I can scare up one from the old rail line to Magdalena NM, built in 1895 and last used in 1973. probably have to wait till I get back from taking a couple of forges on a week long campout in the next state over from me in mid February. PM me where to ship it/them to if you would like to have one of those... I enjoyed seeing the various types of wrought iron RR rails that were in use at the time of the ACW on display at the in the Manassas VA museum last time I was out your way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backyard smith Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 My guy at the RR said "It's the best steel we use next to the track" So it should work for what your going to use it for. TC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 My guy at the RR said "It's the best steel we use next to the track" So it should work for what your going to use it for. TC Hu.... Wonder what the track is? I know the track is not heat treated for normal train use but sometimes is in sever use areas or applications ( I have some heat treated track that came straight from the track manufacture...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Citing the Arema (The American Railway Engineering and Maintenance-of-Way Association) 2007 document, Part 2 "manufacture of Rail" Standard rail steel: .74 to.86% Carbon, .75 to 1.25% Manganese, .10 to .60% Silicon Minimum Brinell (of unhardened surface) 310 or 370 dependent of grade ordered. Low Alloy Rail Steel .72 to .82% Carbon, .80 to 1.10% Manganese, .25 to .40& Chromium, .10 to .50% Silicon Minimum Brinell (of unhardened surface) 310, 325, or 370 dependent of grade ordered. My document shows the following breakdown for grades: SS = standard strength (brinell 310) HH = Head Hardened (brinell 370) LA = Low Alloy Standard Strength (brinell 310) IH = Low Alloy Intermediate (brinell 325) LH = Low Alloy Head Hardened (brinell 370) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Clay spencer uses them for tooling for his power hammer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Steinkirchner Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 any time someone asks a question about those clips (creepers) i have to ask the shape. those things are many different shapes and as such are different in time used and steel makeup. i dont know all the specifics on times used, but the ones i like the best have a sort of 3 leaf clover shape and are medium carbon as the others have said. but there are many shapes, and many I dont even know of yet. i know of about 5 different shapes. all have different shapes, cross-sections, and steel makeups. the hardest ones are j-shaped with a T cross-section, and are high carbon steel. the clover shaped creepers are about 1.25 in X about 5/8 in, and when straightened are about 13 inches or so long. never made a hardy out of one, but none of the ones ive been able to get are big enough. anyway, i would think that they are med carbon and should be tested before you use them. by tested i mean spark tested and hardening/tempering tested that is the only way to be sure(without lab testing of course). just my thoughts on the subject. Ed Steinkirchner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Out on Long Island I get pandrol clips http://www.pandrol.c...ducts/eclip.htm they are about 7/8" round 8" long. They spark test similar to 5160 forge similar and heat treat similarly. I walk the tracks and pick up loose ones. They are good steel not thick enough to make a hardie from. I read on another forum that they are modified 5160. I have also found some clips that were rectangular in section It was a softer material. I tried to forge some chisels from it I could never get it to hold an edge that well. I guess if you were truly determined you could upset a piece into a chunk big enough to forge a hardie from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willis Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Looks like I'm gonna have to start walking the tracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Do be careful as the RR police have rather extraordinary powers and these days you can be accused of being a "terrorist" for trespassing on RR land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I would think that most questions regarding the composition of railroad components could be directed to Nitewatchman. He hasn't posted here in quite some time, but perhaps he would answer a pm or email? If I remember correctly, he worked on the metallurgical side for a railroad supply company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZIG Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 Thanks to all who have helped me here. And they are calked paradol clips. Kinda like a 3 leaf clover thing. Figured they might work as some chisel steel fairly well. But I know I should just get to work on them And see. But I've been outta commission due To surgery And have Spent more time reading than.working on stuff. I Appreciate yalls help. Just curious about what y'all have used them For. Got a bunch of them And I know that doesn't make them good, But without a power hammer now, I am wanting to get back in the shop and try stuff. But gotta be careful since injuries I Had. But about had all the snow I want. And ready to hit it again. Trying to come up with material now so I can get after it once I'm okay again. Been re-readong alot of books and realized that I needed this time to beef up on my heat treating and material ID. This site has been so great to get information and see yalls pictures. Thanks again For bearing with me and my silly questions. But don't think I Don't use the advice. Keep the comments coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZIG Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 Thanks to all who have helped me here. And they are calked paradol clips. Kinda like a 3 leaf clover thing. Figured they might work as some chisel steel fairly well. But I know I should just get to work on them And see. But I've been outta commission due To surgery And have Spent more time reading than.working on stuff. I Appreciate yalls help. Just curious about what y'all have used them For. Got a bunch of them And I know that doesn't make them good, But without a power hammer now, I am wanting to get back in the shop and try stuff. But gotta be careful since injuries I Had. But about had all the snow I want. And ready to hit it again. Trying to come up with material now so I can get after it once I'm okay again. Been re-readong alot of books and realized that I needed this time to beef up on my heat treating and material ID. This site has been so great to get information and see yalls pictures. Thanks again For bearing with me and my silly questions. But don't think I Don't use the advice. Keep the comments coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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