leaf spring steel ID

[jerry p.]

I hope I posted this in the right place. I stopped at a spring shop and they let me dig in the dumpster. I pulled out some leaf springs with lables on, along with the numbers, they said Made in the USA. The guy there didn't seem to know what kind it was other than it was high carbon spring steel. I don't know what the numbers mean either. I thought someone here would know. The first one says 60R10-33. The second one says 250R262-33. And then I got two coil springs from a Dodge truck that are 13/16" in diamiter. They are supposed to be new. Any idea what they would be? Thanks - Jerry P

[thingmaker3]

This is just a guess, but I'd say they're made from some kind of steel.

Sometimes when stuff is free, you get what you pay for. Sometimes you get a better deal than that. If you got a BUNCH of it, you can experiment with heat treatment and still have enough to make tools out of.

[Sweany]

sounds like part #'s to me

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADRA_enUS388US389&q=250R262-33+dayton

[MattBower]

Heck, I'll go one better than thingmaker: I'll bet they're spring steel!

Don't mean to come across as too big a smart-aleck, but it's almost impossible to find accurate answers to these sorts of questions without testing. Occasionally someone has some inside knowledge of a particular steel used by a particular maker for a particular part, but even that sort of info often turns out not to be accurate. A lot of automotive springs, both leaf and coil, are 5160. That doesn't mean they all are.

All I'm comfortable saying is that it's probably a low alloy or plain carbon steel with around 60 points carbon, plus or minus maybe 15 points. Which generally means a reasonably tough steel that's capable of getting pretty hard.

[steveh]

The leaf springs I get are 5160 and the coil springs 1095,that is what the shop I deal with told me.I hope this helps you out.

[maddog]

Like Matt and others have said, trying to find exact specs for this kind of steel is unrealistic. The auto mfrs may not publish the data. They may not even have fixed alloy specs at all. They might change the composition of their springs from run to run depending on cost and suppliers. They spec their springs to mechanical properties that are probably of no interest to you and they are not interested in what kind of knife or punch can be made from their springs. It may perform like 5160 as an auto spring but differently in your application.

The way to work with this kind of steel is to make a guess like the suggestions above, then experiment and adjust. If you are investing serious work in a piece that has to have certain qualities then it's best to simply buy the steel new.

PS 3/4" coil spring is a nice find.:)

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Unless you're using a commercial heat-treater, the "numbers" really don't much matter. Heat to 1600, oil quench, draw by experimental observation 400 - 700.That'll work for most heat-treatable steels you run into.

[Matt Bower]

Grant is right. That will probably work pretty well.

[Matt Bower]

BTW - it probably wouldn't work that great for 1095. But I've had two auto coil springs tested and neither was 1095. Both were very close to 5160.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

BTW - it probably wouldn't work that great for 1095. But I've had two auto coil springs tested and neither was 1095. Both were very close to 5160.

Why don't you think it would work well for 1095?

[jerry p.]

Thanks for all of your advice. I was hoping to get some idea of where to start instead of working blind. Thanks again! Jerry P

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Had a lady one time tell me that her grandfather had been a spring blacksmith. She wanted to know what exactly that meant. Well, after a few minutes I had her convinced that he was probably a seasonal worker!

"Old blacksmiths never die ~ they just quit using their Peterwright"!

[MattBower]

Why don't you think it would work well for 1095?

Grant, sorry I didn't notice your question before. I lost track of this thread.

As I'm sure you know, 1095 is very shallow hardening and needs a really fast quench to get full hard. Most oils aren't nearly fast enough. Doesn't mean it wouldn't harden some in a slower oil, but there'd be a lot of pearlite in there.

[ThomasPowers]

I've actually ran across *one* low alloy strain hardened leaf spring---low carbon! It can't be quenched hardened!

So whenever someone trots out that they are 5160, I like to mention that *NOT ALWAYS*!

(of course this is one in almost 30 years; but...

[Dragons lair]

This is just a guess, but I'd say they're made from some kind of steel.

Sometimes when stuff is free, you get what you pay for. Sometimes you get a better deal than that. If you got a BUNCH of it, you can experiment with heat treatment and still have enough to make tools out of.

Ok here's one for ya. Ordered in a 8" round bar for a coustomers project.After cutting, machining and welding.OOps sent leaded bar, 200 pieces had to be recalled. Know what ya need and what they sent.
Ken.

[ZIG]

I've have access to some big leaf springs and torsion bars and basically anything they throw away at my friends. Family owned, trucking company.
The mechanics That works there is also one of my best friends. We grew up together.
Point being : is? ? What sorta steel would these springs be? ? Coming of gravel trucks. The springs are huge. About 1/2 to 5/8 thick. And very long too.
They got a huge pile behind the shop now. And I ain't sure exactly what material they would be. They break several sets a week. They have over 25 trucks in their fleets. So material ain't any problem to get.
Actually, what I was wondering is just what I can do with them. They are so hard and Thick. My little. 150 lb butt has been wore out whopping on them. I don't have a power hammer yet. But making some drifts and punches outta the springs. But, again They are tough.
So... Anyone ever deal with much off a gravel truck Like This. ?
The longest spring is around five foot long and so one can make a bunch of stuff. I get tired of thinking what all I Might make outta them. Seeing I got so much and I set a look at them while catching my breathe. Ha.
It late and I'm delirious I guess. But any idea If these are 5160 like most cars springs are. ???
Just fishing for ideas I reckon. Don't rip me over such a BS POST. Just hunting other uses for it without having a power hammer to help. Have I said its tough stuff yet. ?? Ha. But I'm tickled To have such access. To it all. The pile is higher than me. Gonna get crushed digging in there.
Just wondering what Y'all thought.

[Timothy Miller]

Good luck working stuff that thick by hand. If it is 5160 it is harder than mild steel.

[Mainely,Bob]

What you really are concerned about here is the heat treating after forging right?
Grant put up some excellent info about HT over a wide spectrum of steels and so have others here,check the archives for those.
The reality is not everything in that pile is the same steel so you are going to have to be flexible and experiment some.
Expect some failures,if you never fail that means you aren`t trying hard enough.

[ZIG]

I totally understand that its a miss match of metal/ type. In that pile. I have been slicing up pieces off the leaf springs. In to strips. And it is some hard stuff. You can make some good punches out it. But man, it sure Aint That easy.
I have been digging around in there for last while. I've collected alot of different things. But since I've had a heartattack this summer. I've backed off on the big stuff.
Wasn't worried about certain metal strenghts to much. Not now. But basically. Was picking yalls brain as to what I might could make outta those big springs. I Ain't been able to tackle them lately. And Just figured I wasn't the only person That had used these heavy springs to make stuff.
Just wondering. I can check It at work on steel type but have been off work for a while with surgery. So, playing blacksmith on computer more than usual. Just wondering. Lots of gravel tricks out there. Someone has had to have found a good use for this leaf spring. I'm just not able to do much now and going crazy wanting To. Thanks for replies.

[canada goose]

one thing that 5/8 spring stock is good for is the tines on a "broad fork" Each tine is 6 to 8 in. long and there are 4 to 6 tines.Uses up lots of material and all they need is pointing and bending.There is no need to heat treat as the steel still is quite tough in an air cooled state.E.G. broadfork

[thingmaker3]

I've have access to some big leaf springs and torsion bars and basically anything they throw away at my friends. Family owned, trucking company.
The mechanics That works there is also one of my best friends. We grew up together.
Point being : is? ? What sorta steel would these springs be? ?

For only fifty bucks or so, you can have someone run them through an emission spectrometer and get a reasonably accurate composition list. Then you'll know what that particular chunk is. How many chunks in that pile?

As for the big flat pieces - have you considered torch-cutting them into manageable sized bars?

[ThomasPowers]

Re: Massive Free Stock; unless you get access to large forges and powerhammers large stock may take up a lot of room but not be very helpful. One would, of course, get a small pile for possible future use and perhaps some to trade at conferences.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

If you don't have a power hammer, it's better to look for material closer to what your finished tool will look like. For many hand tools, a coil spring can be straightened or cut into pieces and straightened. Less work + more fun = happy smith.

[ZIG]

I Just figured someone here, Had made some good tooling outta them. I buy my stock usually. But have a never ending supply of them. That I would pick yalls brain a little.
But I wont spend a whole day cutting stuff up just cause its free. So it can lay in my shop.floor for years.
I Need some more tooling and this stuff will work for that. Thought I.wasn't the only person on here That had a buddy with a gravel truck. Cause in the south They are everywhere. I live in the chert rock capital of the world basically.
They are always tearing up springs and axles, bars. Just wanted to see who had came up with a decent use for them.
Appreciate yalls help. Late night posting comes off wrong at times.

[ZIG]

I Just figured someone here, Had made some good tooling outta them. I buy my stock usually. But have a never ending supply of them. That I would pick yalls brain a little.
But I wont spend a whole day cutting stuff up just cause its free. So it can lay in my shop.floor for years.
I Need some more tooling and this stuff will work for that. Thought I.wasn't the only person on here That had a buddy with a gravel truck. Cause in the south They are everywhere. I live in the chert rock capital of the world basically.
They are always tearing up springs and axles, bars. Just wanted to see who had came up with a decent use for them.
Appreciate yalls help. Late night posting comes off wrong at times.