LDW Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 Darren arrived at Brians this afternoon around 3:00PM. Brian decided to get him in the fire so he could practice up on striking. Tomorrow is his first day and will make a hammer first thing. By getting some practice at striking today, it should help him relax a little more in the morning. Darren did great today, he was striking hard and true. Instead of waiting till he is finished we will update this thread with pictures as often as we can. This ended up being a great pictorial on making Brians fabulous hot cut hardy. Darren shows a lot of interest, and appears to be a quick learner. This should be fun. http://picasaweb.google.com/LDWynn/DarrenSArrivalToBrianS# Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Dave Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 In some of the picture of Darren striking, Brian is holding the material in the middle of the anvil. Won't this damage the anvil when he hits Brians die, and wouldn't it be better to have the material closer to the edge of the anvil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 In some of the picture of Darren striking, Brian is holding the material in the middle of the anvil. Won't this damage the anvil when he hits Brians die, and wouldn't it be better to have the material closer to the edge of the anvil? I'm holding the material at the near edge of the anvil, which makes the far end of the piece extend to the middle of the anvil. Once the edge gets forged to it's final thickness my flatter is not long enough to hit the anvil. I have hit the anvil with my flatter before and damaged both my flatter and anvil. It doesn't take too long to figure that one out. Now it is just a matter of proportion and using the right sized flatter for the job at hand. And, no, for this tool it would not be better to have the material closer to the edge of the anvil, unless I had my 2" wide anvil. I don't want my hardies too tall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 Brian, Why are you using such a small anvil to forge something like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsberg Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 Hey Brian, Are those pinecones in the bucket used to start the fire? Caleb Ramsby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2519 Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 Well yet again a great series of pictures. They explain the entire process of making that hot cut. Thankyou Brian and LDW for sharing. Looks like Darren is off to a flying start. Look forward to seeing more. Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 looks good guys, great pictures as always LDW. When you forge a shanked tool how do you keep from getting fish lips at the end of the taper? The tools that I forged have bad fish lips, what causes that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 Is Darren left handed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 Great pictures, and a great tutorial on your hot cut! Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 looks good guys, great pictures as always LDW. When you forge a shanked tool how do you keep from getting fish lips at the end of the taper? The tools that I forged have bad fish lips, what causes that? There are two different reasons that cause the "fish lips". First, not hitting the material with enough force to move the material all the way from its core, causing only the outer surface to move. And secondly, hitting over the edge of the material or too far out. There are some "fish lips" that started to develop on that hardy, and they were caused by the striker hitting to far out, whiched caused the material to instantly peel over. You can see a few missed blows on the material in the pictures as we were developing the shank, but those were corrected in the latter stages of the heat with the flatter. The starts of the "fish lips" are still evident on the finished hardy, though, but they are of no consequence since the striker saw his blows and was able to correct instead of coutinuing to hit over the material. Frank, Darren is right handed. Ramsberg, Yes, they are for starting the fire. Maddog, Because that is what I brought on this road trip, so that is what I have to work with. I posted pictures of that anvil after I first made it in the Tools Section under "Traveling Anvil". That anvil has made over a hundred hammers and many more top and bottom tools in less than a year with many different stikers, male and female, ages from 12 years old to over 80, and has the scares to prove it. Most of the people had never struck before, and I believe that 25 pound piece of mild steel on a stand was the best tool for the job, and it continues to do its job. Everybody misses, and it doesn't matter so much with this anvil. It is alot safer because it is mild steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofafeather Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 looks good guys, great pictures as always LDW. When you forge a shanked tool how do you keep from getting fish lips at the end of the taper? The tools that I forged have bad fish lips, what causes that? In general with some tool steels the outer layer of the material moves more than the inner core because of a few factors - evenness of heat and the force and penetration of the blow are some. That's what causes fish lips - the outer layer moving but not the core. By concentrating the force of the blows by using top and bottom fullering dies, and using a forceful blow that the striker gives, the blows can penetrate and move more material all the way through to the center. Using a power hammer would have a similar effect if you use the right dies. Thanks for the tutorial guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec.S Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 Thanks guys! i really engoy reading all of yor posts brian and ldw!!! i have learnt so much from them! I have tried brians' slitting geometry and it works really nicely!!! tommorow i plan to forge a handled slitting chisel like your selfs or a hot set like yours out of a 1 1/4 inch breaker bit / jackhammer bit. any advise before i start? how should i cut the stock? thanks ! i read about a hammer making vid somwhere on the forum.. where can i get hold of one? well done with the student! i am very jealous that i can't be in his shoes!!!! that is a very nice hardie.... how long did it take you to make? thank you lyle for taking pics of the making!!!! it was vey imformative! keep em' comming i say! thanks one more! alec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Thanks guys! i really engoy reading all of yor posts brian and ldw!!! i have learnt so much from them! I have tried brians' slitting geometry and it works really nicely!!! tommorow i plan to forge a handled slitting chisel like your selfs or a hot set like yours out of a 1 1/4 inch breaker bit / jackhammer bit. any advise before i start? how should i cut the stock? thanks ! i read about a hammer making vid somwhere on the forum.. where can i get hold of one? well done with the student! i am very jealous that i can't be in his shoes!!!! that is a very nice hardie.... how long did it take you to make? thank you lyle for taking pics of the making!!!! it was vey imformative! keep em' comming i say! thanks one more! alec Man, that's alot of questions, but I'll try to answer them. First, send me a personal message, and I'll have Karen send you that hammer making video. All the top tools start like a hammer, but they are a little bit more involved except for the set hammer. The set hammer is even simpler, because you don't need any other tooling than your anvil, flatter, and a stiker with a sledge. Oh, and that punch you asked about that you called a "slitting chisel". I no longer use slitting chisels because slitting punches are more efficient. I have done set hammers by my self when I had square stock availiable. A straight cut with a chop saw or band saw would be best for a set hammer, but a cut with a hot cut hardy is best for most other small top tools (1 1/2" and under). When cutting with a hardy, cut to the center like Hofi has shown in the old blue prints. That will set you up to have more even forging without having to worry about creating "fish lips". That hardy with Darren took us about 1/2 hour, but that was his first time stiking with me. Lyle and I showed him one in 4 heats first, and that took us less than 15 minutes. Thanks for asking the questions AlecS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Ofafeather, that was a very good reply. I think we were replying at the same time and said alot of the same stuff. I'm still quite slow with my posting and responses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec.S Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Thank you brian.. i think we were talking about the same thing ( what i wrongly called a slitter) and when i said hot set i meant handled "cutter" sorry, my smithing vobabulary isn't up to your levles thank you once more. i will post with my results oh.. seems i will have to wait till next week to start on the jackhammer bit makey into thingy stuff. lol i sent you a pm... thanks alec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Thank you brian.. i think we were talking about the same thing ( what i wrongly called a slitter) and when i said hot set i meant handled "cutter" sorry, my smithing vobabulary isn't up to your levles thank you once more. i will post with my results oh.. seems i will have to wait till next week to start on the jackhammer bit makey into thingy stuff. lol i sent you a pm... thanks alec Alec, I do use "slitters", but I was pointing out a very distinct difference between a slitting chisel and a slitting punch. I no longer use slitting chisels for making hammers and top tools. I'd call the other a handled hot cut. JohnB has been working on a list of blacksmithing terms and definitions that should help people from different areas of the world communicate their ideas when discussing blacksmithing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec.S Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 by slitting punch do you mean the tools with the v grind and sharpened like a coldchisles' angle"? http://www.iforgeiron.com/uploads/5/0/8/1/12581.attach this is your pic but is this what you are talking about... if so then we are on the same track..... alec thanks again.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofafeather Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Ofafeather, that was a very good reply. I think we were replying at the same time and said alot of the same stuff. I'm still quite slow with my posting and responses. Thanks, Brian. I think I understand it but haven't had as much chance to put it into practice.~Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 by slitting punch do you mean the tools with the v grind and sharpened like a coldchisles' angle"? http://www.iforgeiron.com/uploads/5/0/8/1/12581.attach this is your pic but is this what you are talking about... if so then we are on the same track..... alec thanks again.... You got it, Alec. Those ones are hand held puches, and I have others with handles, also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Thank you Brian and ofafeather for the explanation I think that I have a better understanding of the cause of the "fish lips" now. Hard concentrated blows in the center of the material- do not hit over the edge or too far out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Here are some pictures of Darren's tools so far: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofafeather Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec.S Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Awesome... you have definitely got him going! was that the morning's work... if so thats impressive alec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 That was yesterdays work, his first day, and he did several other forging exercises. We have been busy, so I can't keep up with the day to day postings. Here are some of the thinggs we did today: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec.S Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 NICE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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