Astro_Al Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 I have been asked if I can forge some medals - about 60 in all, mostly in the usual gold / silver / bronze categories, plus a few others. The budget is very small (its basically a favour, with a bit of materials money thrown in). Has anyone ever seen/made a hand forged medal? What would you use to differentiate the gold / silver / bronze, given that those materials are way off the scale? There is about £10 or $20 per item. Interested to hear people's thoughts. Cheers, Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 Brass, Copper, Aluminium/Stainless = cheaper than gold bronze silver What design/logo? What size(s) are you looking to produce? What shape? Medals are usually stamped and/or coined, occasionally cast. Make a die stamp as you would a touchmark, Letter stamps can be used for individuality And it depends on what you are willing to put in time and effort wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 Well for centuries coins (and medals) were struck by hand with engraved hammers or punches. They used not to worry too much about alignment as many of the older coins would have impressions off center. To tell the truth they were oftimes more attractive than modern coinage (IMO). The process used for touch marks would work. Faux gold medals could be brass or steel that is brass limned by brushing at black heat. Aluminum or stainless would make faux silver medals (though the real thing is not totally beyond reach). Bronze could just be plain copper but some of the aluminum bronzes are pretty good about staying shiny. All coins were not round either and you might make attractive medals that are square, octagon, rectangular or oval. You could also tin steel medals for faux silver ones. I have often flame patinaed copper to gold hues but you have to get into it as that kind of coloration is very skill intensive. Still, gold is one of the easier colors to flame on. Oh yeah, pewter would be silvery too. Back when I was a kid I made some just for fun... hammered out of slugs and scrap metal on my granddad's old RR tie anvil. I was a big slug collector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted October 4, 2010 Author Share Posted October 4, 2010 Thanks for the inputs guys. Thats basically what I thought. I had planned to spend a decent amount of time making the dies, then just cut discs on the bandsaw (or out of sheet), throw them in the forge then squeeze them in the dies on the hydraulic press. I may need to do a batch annually, so I could keep the front decorative die constant and change the rear face one which would be pain except for some script giving the event / date / position info, each time. I wondered about doing them all in regular steel then having them surface treated to 'colour' them appropriately, but I like the idea of different materials. I'd need to be sure that with plenty of sweaty fingers on them etc they didn't start oxidising though - especially the copper... Big foot - I know what you mean about the charm of old coins, but I fear if I don't reproduce these accurately, people won't 'get it' and it'll just look like I've messed some of them up. John - the logo is yet to be decided, as it the shape and size (roughly 3 to 4 inch and round-ish). I figure the challenge is getting the different colours in a way that won't 'wear out' and with an efficiently repeatable technique. Its not for the olympics or anything, so I need to keep the cost to an absolute minimum. Cheers, Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fciron Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 Astro Al, 3-4 inches is HUGE! I hope you have a very serious hydraulic press. I would definitely look into aluminum or bronze, either copper or steel will oxidize quickly under the influence of sweaty fingers. Bronze will darken, but at least it will still look like art; copper will go from brown to green and steel will rust. Silicon Bronze is a real pleasure to work with, but shows fingerprints. Architectural bronze is actually brass and seems very stable in my experience. I know that some of the architectural metal suppliers sell small disks. Try King Architectural or Texas Metal Industries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 If they are that large 3"-4" and a medal, (usually on a ribbon that size) Does it have to be two sided? If you are pressing them you could do the logo/whatever in relief on one side,(Like repousse) then leave a flat blank area on the front where you update your annual alteration, using a smaller die Or you could invest in a small engraving machine, that could also be useful in other ways and on other projects, or even sub conning for others, engraved plaques on items always add kudos kudos means cash potential. For a durable finish lacquer could be used and stoved if necessary, alternatively use aluminium and anodize them in different colours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainely,Bob Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 Doing this on the cheap is a losing proposition IMO.You know you`re going to put WAY more time into this that you realize or is reasonable don`t you?********. If you can`t be convinced to treat this as you would when submitting a real job bid them this is what I`d do. Look for a source for material that would be scrap.Slugs from places that punch plate or if you`re going with limited numbers,have an automatic saw and want to hassle with the cutting of discs then the bar ends offered by Biggundoctor would be a decent jump off point. If supplying these as a favor to a third party then make them out of ONE type of material and either electroplate,annodize,heat patina,powder coat,paint or better yet hand the stamped medals to the 3rd party and let them deal with the color coding headache. A less than ethical individual we used to compete with would do his bidding by shopping around the proposal.After collecting the bids,adding a percentage onto the highest bid he could get away with and copying the info onto his own letterhead he would submit "his" bid.If he was awarded the job he went with his lowest bidder and personally did nothing but paperwork and delivery. He stayed in business a surprisingly long time.I believe the divorce was what killed his run. His techniques can be used as a sanity check to see if you need to either walk away from a favor or jump in the car and burn rubber. Tell a good friend who is capable of doing the job what you plan and then ask what he would charge for a job like this.Be prepared to return the favor in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 Look up "coining"; I have a friend who does this and has a slew of screw presses and a knuckle press. 3-4" is GIGANTIC and will require a very large press indeed! Screw presses are nice in that the pressure spike as they bottom out helps "squirt" the metal into the die. (my screwpress was used to strike 100 feast tokens last month) Look up buying planchets way too much time making them and if they are not perfectly even will strike BADLY. AZ cheap way to go can be to buy coinage from other countries where it is cheap, anneal and restrike the coins---with a good press you don't even need to flatten them or remove the old design. Actually go to http://www.shirepost.com/ and look over his mint pages and talk to him directly! Far better to go to the source! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted October 4, 2010 Author Share Posted October 4, 2010 Guys, thanks a lot. I really appreciate the great ideas / info you guys are putting my way. Just to pad out the description / situation a bit; this is for a 'group' to which I belong, and have done for nearly 20 years. I'm more than happy to give my time and effort for free. We figured on around £10 per medal just to cover some kind of metal disc (not a precious metal!) and maybe a surface treatment. I'm not doing this to make any money, it is to help out a group to which I belong. I can get steel blank discs in inch / half-inch sizes very cheaply, so I figure 3" will be about right for a typical medal (the type you hang on a ribbon around someone's neck). I'll just stamp a simple logo type design into the centre, and maybe separately do some kind of texture / pattern around the edge. Hopefully my press has the horsepower for that (frame built for 60 tonnes, current ram good for about 20, but I can always upgrade it). John - I agree that ali and anodizing is the obvious choice, but it feels cheap when the disc is too lightweight. I'd love it to have a more 'quality' feel from having more mass. Can you anodize any heavier metals? I know its fussy, but I have a while to figure this out, so I'd like to investigate all the avenues... The obvious thing would be to use steel discs and an equivalent surface treatment. There is a place nearby that does zinc passivation (typically 'gold', but its not exactly smooth). The engraving idea is good - just pattern the front, and custom engrave the backs or a void on the front or something. I've seen pantograph engravers on ebay, but no idea how they work...! If they rely on steady-freehand operation, I'm screwed! I guess what I need is a site or list with all the various metals / surface treatments / colour options and how hard-wearing they all are. I don't want these to deteriorate as I'll still be in touch with the recipients! Thanks Thomas - I'll check out that link. Thanks for people's suggestions of sources of metals etc, but I'm in the UK. Cheers, Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 Steel, hot metal sprayed can be done in zinc, bronze, copper and other materials, buff up and they will look the business without losing too much definition. Or use some of the Gilding pastes available Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingmaker3 Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 3" to 4" is more on the order of horse brasses. I think those are usually cast... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Falzone Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 Have you considered just acid etching all your medals in copper and then having the different colours plated on or anodized (or something along those lines). Just musing out-loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainely,Bob Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 In the absence of detailed information about the end use of these medals I am going to assume by the proposed size(3 inches in diameter)that they will mostly just be displayed and not carried in a pocket. If this is fact the case then the most versatile material that comes to mind would be stainless. Once the medals are formed you can color them in an oven and lacquer them to fix the patina. Take test pieces or scrap of the same material and use those to set your oven to get the desired color. Stainless will have the weight you`re after and less worry about corrosion than polished steel or aluminum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 Another thought: abrasive blasting! You would be limited to a softer metal like aluminum (good for anodizing) or tinted glass circles (interesting effect) and you purchase etching film, the stuff is sticky and printed with a photo process, so you can whip the design up on the computer and print the mask out with a lazer jet printer on a translucent paper or overhead projector film (go to the office printing store for this, in the US I would say Kinko's) Clean your metal blank, apply your mask, use vinyl tape (electrical tape) to beef up the areas that are not well protected, and go to town. A basic hopper sandblaster is inexpensive, I am sure you have an air compressor, and you will need to investigate the abrasives to use, but fine and aggressive (hard) are probably what you need. If you work in a cabinet then you can reuse your abrasive even! Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 Some one mentioned casting, when I was running my home made foundry I'd cast a batch of medals for a fellow every year for his basketball players. Some were serious, best player, most improved, some silly, funniest play, team joker, but everyone on his team got one. I cast them all in bronze and they were just sandblasted and wire brushed with dish rags as the ribbon. I use regular alphabet stamps for the year, name and reason for award. The casting was fast and easy. I kept the moulds and made the waxes up each year until the coach retired. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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