Chopshopchopper Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/sub/product_detail.aspx?id=90-439-015&searchtable=1&sortExpression=&SortASC=&pageSize=50¤tPageIndex=0&searchNAP= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 Can be used in a limited way, but you really need to understand them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainely,Bob Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 Someone who has a deep understanding of any machine`s capabilities and limitations is only limited by his imagination as long as he keeps those things in mind. Grant`s videos are excellent examples of this concept in action. Thanks for posting this bit of STOCK Grant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 cool video. almost seems like a single blow power hammer. I guess essentially thats what it is? Looks like great control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopshopchopper Posted October 1, 2010 Author Share Posted October 1, 2010 Can be used in a limited way, but you really need to understand them. What are you using at 1:43 to heat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Induction forge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 cool video. almost seems like a single blow power hammer. I guess essentially thats what it is? Looks like great control. It is a single blow tool, but nothing like a power hammer. There is no"play" whatsoever. When engaged the ram must complete it's entire stroke, regardless. A power hammer, hydraulic press, fly press, screw press, drop hammer, all are capable of an incomplete stroke. Generaly punch presses are setup for a single repetitive task. The press in the OP's link is known as an open back inclinable (OBI) punch press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 I played with a 20 ton punch press a few years ago and did some hot work with it. This kind of machine has a rigid connection to its crank, like it was said above it needs to complete its stroke or it will jam. I have heard of machines cracking in half and cranks snapping when they jam. That being said they can do hot work effectively but in a limited way. I have used them to upset heads on nails and to hot punch holes in small hammers. The material must be hot because if it is too cold it will need more power to complete its stroke possibly jamming the machine. You could use a sloped die to progressively form a taper or a conical swage like grant is doing above. but you must feed it consistently into the tool not too much steel at once. You risk forming flash or jamming the press. Also using an induction heater to get consistent heats seems like it would be the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 Interesting stuff. Thanks artfist and southshore for the explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polarbearforge Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 Very nice. I've never done any hot work on a punch press, but I used to make dies for them. I like the setup. Thanks for sharing it with us! Jamie Can be used in a limited way, but you really need to understand them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainely,Bob Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 What keeps my attention in Grant`s videos is how the work is getting done efficiently and quickly yet the shop is far more quiet than you would expect. There is also an economy of energy and motion both personal and machine oriented that is just amazing. Many times we see only the work and tooling then head off into a project without a clear understanding of the process.The pics and videos by Grant,Brian B,Hofi and others are excellent illustrations of masters of the craft making something look easy because they have taken the time to gain a deep understanding of both their material and the techniques involved to best work that material in a given environment or circumstance. I say all this to encourage people to look very closely at what`s going on.Just as buying one of Hofi`s or Brian`s hammers will not automatically make you a better smith.Taking a class with them and understanding the how and why of that tool will. Don`t for a minute think that a punch press will be a cheap alternative for either a power hammer or a screw press and run out and buy one at the next auction. These guys make it look simple because they have years of experience working with these type of tools behind them. The results in inexperienced hands can be disappointing at best and catastrophic at worst.Things to keep in mind when considering any purchase like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 When doing machine production it is important to also have the material set up so there is an efficient in flow and out flow. There is no wasted effort in grants process. In most manufacturing processes there is much effort put into making shure that the material flows efficently from process to process. Punch presses really are manufacturing machines not hand work machines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpotter Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 I make tools using closed dies and do it in a hydraulic press, I have considered using the punch press for this type of work but have yet to take the plunge, I use them for punching sheet but have not tried closed dies yet. I guess I would adjust it to kinda creep up on full closure and see how it goes or do multiple dies slowly progressing to the finished shape. My dies are made on an edm and then I put them in shoes and just swap them out of the 100 ton press, no drama no excitement just slow and boring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 I make tools using closed dies and do it in a hydraulic press, I have considered using the punch press for this type of work but have yet to take the plunge, I use them for punching sheet but have not tried closed dies yet. I guess I would adjust it to kinda creep up on full closure and see how it goes or do multiple dies slowly progressing to the finished shape. My dies are made on an edm and then I put them in shoes and just swap them out of the 100 ton press, no drama no excitement just slow and boring. I think progressive dies would be the way to go. That is what grant is doing in his video. If you had a lot of tonnage you could just do it in one shot and trim off the flash in a second operation like they do with drop forging. But then you have something that looks drop forged with the parting grind line. I think the main reason punch presses get used for forging as there are so many old machines around. You can get them cheap so we are tempted to use them. I it costs more to put the proper guards and controls on them than what those machines are worth. I even heard that OSHA has basically regulated those machines out of existence. I went into a aluminum railing shop that had a Lexan box around the the ram with a little hole to feed the metal in to be punched. So there was absolutely no way to put your hand in the machine. I also met a man who put his hand into a punch press and lost his pinkie, ring finger and part of his palm. That being said my book keeper who sometimes works in the shop runs our punch like a champ. But this was after a complete safety talk and a dry run on some scrap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 OSHA actually makes an exemption for hot work. They understand that you're not reaching into the die area with a small part, you either have a long part or you're holding it with tongs. So point of operation guarding and dual palm buttons are not required in hot work. I much prefer swaging to one pop and trim. I'd need a longer part and I'd have to grind the flash line smooth. And I hate grinding! EDM? Yeah, between my tool path generating software, my CNC vertical machining center and my EDM, I can make just about any die I can imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpotter Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 I just bought a shizouka old as dirt cnc in great shape but have no clue how to run it,it does run I have used it a little but all my machines are conventional ww2 stuff. I have been machining all the stuff but have gotten interested in press forging since it saves so much time, I have converted most of my tools to forgings and hope to do the rest but I need more tonnage, I havent found any screw presses around this area so I will going hydraulic. I just built a hotter forge and that has helped alot but more tonnage will do the trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 There are some pretty reasonably priced friction screw presses offered in this thread: http://www.iforgeiro...ss-for-forging/ They are near ideal for forging. Have real impact and short contact time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpotter Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 The prices are great it is the shipping and the set up that will kill me. I am in my garage, I need more room but industrial space is still expensive around here I dont want to move my stuff into a rented building. There is a shop that shut down last year that has a big fly press I will go check it out and see if they might sell it, that would be cheaper than more tonnage, and faster. I was offered a 50 ton bliss for free just haul it away, yesterday but I maintained controll and passed on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopshopchopper Posted October 3, 2010 Author Share Posted October 3, 2010 Thank you for the info guys.I do like the old school look of this punch press, and the price, but I don't want the noise or to be limited with its use. I really want a small-medium fly press because it is quit and versatile. But I have not found one in my under $500 price range locally. I am hoping to walk threw HGR one day soon and find one for $25 because they don't know what it is. Well see I am also considering making one but the screw seems like a hard thing to find. If I had a blue print for a good screw or new of some one local that had a good screw press that would let me make a blue print Id be set. The press in this thread is the size I would be happy with: Let me know if any of you have any Ideas. Thank again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopshopchopper Posted October 3, 2010 Author Share Posted October 3, 2010 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150487543488&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT This one is a few hours away, and the price is to high for me. Does the screw look to slow? Id contact him and ask if I could draw his screw if I thought it was a good thread. Thank you for any info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 http://cgi.ebay.com/...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT This one is a few hours away, and the price is to high for me. Does the screw look to slow? Id contact him and ask if I could draw his screw if I thought it was a good thread. Thank you for any info. That is not a punch press its a screw press. The screw is too slow and its really not that good of a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 That looks like a 2 lead screw to me, which is fast enough. From the picture it looks like it is in good shape. If it is as heavy as the seller says it is I don't think it is a bad deal. A number 6 imported one which is quite a bit lighter than this one is $2000. I don't think it is 20 ton though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Mine is about the same size it has a 3 lead screw it does a good job for many things. I had heard from a local machinery dealer that they have been scraping the screw presses they had sitting in inventory for 15 years not fly presses but screw presses. Not to say a press of this size would not be of some use to somebody but it is not really fast enough to do hot work. If i could get it for $300 and it was down the street would go for it. To call it a fly press is not really as we understand the term is not accurate. Its in super shape but I feel that a blacksmith buying it would be disappointed in its performance. There are a few of these on ebay in this price range they have been listed for months and not sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 You keep mentioning "too far away" but do not list your LOCATION do you not think that suggestions might be better if we knew where you were and how far you could travel? I have a 2 lead large (H-frame) screwpress and while I would prefer an extra lead on it; I have enjoyed using it for forging---I've been smooshing top tooling down to fit in my 1.5" hardies with it--nice smooth parallel sides. Also making square tenons with it and a stop block. (and the odd coining job, straitening tent stakes, etc) Bought it for $50 + buyer's reaming, tax and $35 to have it loaded on my pickup. Auction was in the old factory toolroom back behind the building I worked in. Arbor presses were selling much higher for piddly little things! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopshopchopper Posted October 4, 2010 Author Share Posted October 4, 2010 You keep mentioning "too far away" but do not list your LOCATION do you not think that suggestions might be better if we knew where you were and how far you could travel? I have a 2 lead large (H-frame) screwpress and while I would prefer an extra lead on it; I have enjoyed using it for forging---I've been smooshing top tooling down to fit in my 1.5" hardies with it--nice smooth parallel sides. Also making square tenons with it and a stop block. (and the odd coining job, straitening tent stakes, etc) Bought it for $50 + buyer's reaming, tax and $35 to have it loaded on my pickup. Auction was in the old factory toolroom back behind the building I worked in. Arbor presses were selling much higher for piddly little things! Sorry I live in Parma Ohio North Eastern Ohio. I would be willing to drive 6 hours for a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.