Wheel lug steel?

[Crunch]

Hello, all. I have some wheel lugs from my brother's truck (he chowed some rotors). Anyone know what type of steel is typically used for wheel lugs?

I'm wondering if they might be alloyed for shock resistance or some other characteristic that would make them useful for making any particular type of tools.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

[RandyScott]

Wheel lugs? Do you mean the studs that the lug nuts screw onto? I don't know the type of steel, probably something designed, either through make up of the steel and/or heat treatment, for a certain amount of tensile strength. Beyond that point, the stud breaks. An air wrench develops enough torque to snap those... auto and light truck. OTR trucks.. don't know. Do a spark test, forge one, quench it and test it. The old fashioned lug wrench, back before the days of the scissor jacks for autos and Chinese imports, is purported to be 5160...

[pkrankow]

Wheel studs and lug nuts/bolts should be Grade 8, so heat treated alloy steel. Even if they are grade 5 they are still heat treated and probably an alloy steel. Both cases make for good practice steel and good general project metal, but may or may not be good for knives.

Phil

[Crunch]

Thanks, fellas. I'm a total newbie so please excuse what are likely very basic questions.

[Frosty]

Thanks, fellas. I'm a total newbie so please excuse what are likely very basic questions.

No excuses necessary Crunch, it's a good question.

Lugs are or were just shy of grade 8s so if you use and heat treat them like black grade 8s you'll be in safe country. Experiment and test them before you make something that can cause harm if it fails.

Spark first. Then flatten one to under 1/4" and put a shallow rounded fuller across the center. I have a blunted chisel I use for a leav veiner I do this with. Next slowly bring it to non-magnetic heat and quench it in warm oil, coffee cup warm is about right. Don't worry about what kind of oil so long as it's not too contaminated, almost anything from 10-40 motor oil to peanut or canola will be fine, the thinner the more aggressive the quench but it's still good enough.

Once it's quenched, take a file to it, if the file sKates without cutting it's high carbon, if a file does cut forget the rest of the hardness tests you probably won't even need to temper it. Then take it from one end with a pair of pliers or tongs and give it a sharp smack on the anvil or other suitable piece of heavy steel. You ARE going to be wearing eye protection . . . RIGHT?! Don't make me explain!

If it breaks like ceramic it's pretty high carbon and must be tempered or it won't be safe just laying on a shelf. If it doesn't break clamp it in a vise with the shallow fuller just above the jaws. Lay a rag or old hand towel over it to act as a scatter shield and give it a sharp smack with a medium weight hammer, say 2lbs give or take. If it snaps it's going to need tempering but isn't outright hazardous as quenched just laying there.

If it doesn't break hit it HARD. If it breaks it's probably a mid range of carbon, unlikely in a tire lug unless the new specs are way different. It'll make dandy things that need strength without being brittle, say wrenches or chisels.

Okay, so the file skates or it breaks on one of the hardness tests. On to testing it's temper range. First shine it up either with a file or sand paper then gradually heat one end and watch the colors run. Stop heating and cool it in water when the end in the fire is blue and the other end is either still silvery or is turning tan. Cooling it in water will NOT make it harder, it's well below critical (non-magnetic) temp so don't worry.

Next put it in the vise with just a little of one end exposed. Which end you start with can be decided by the steel's reaction to the hardening tests. If it shattered like glass start with the blue end exposed as it's the least brittle. So, with the intended test victim exposed give it a sharp smack with a hammer. covering it with something for a scatter shield is a good idea but makes it harder to aim so wear even more safety gear and maybe put a box full of rags behind it to catch flying bits.

The tan end will be the hardest and the blue end the least hard so take it a step at a time till you find the temper color that gives you the hardness and or resilience you're looking for.

Taking notes is a REALLY good idea so you'll know what you did to what down the road.

Frosty the Lucky.

[wedwards]

No excuses necessary Crunch, it's a good question.

Lugs are or were just shy of grade 8s so if you use and heat treat them like black grade 8s you'll be in safe country. Experiment and test them before you make something that can cause harm if it fails.

Spark first. Then flatten one to under 1/4" and put a shallow rounded fuller across the center. I have a blunted chisel I use for a leav veiner I do this with. Next slowly bring it to non-magnetic heat and quench it in warm oil, coffee cup warm is about right. Don't worry about what kind of oil so long as it's not too contaminated, almost anything from 10-40 motor oil to peanut or canola will be fine, the thinner the more aggressive the quench but it's still good enough.

Once it's quenched, take a file to it, if the file sKates without cutting it's high carbon, if a file does cut forget the rest of the hardness tests you probably won't even need to temper it. Then take it from one end with a pair of pliers or tongs and give it a sharp smack on the anvil or other suitable piece of heavy steel. You ARE going to be wearing eye protection . . . RIGHT?! Don't make me explain!

If it breaks like ceramic it's pretty high carbon and must be tempered or it won't be safe just laying on a shelf. If it doesn't break clamp it in a vise with the shallow fuller just above the jaws. Lay a rag or old hand towel over it to act as a scatter shield and give it a sharp smack with a medium weight hammer, say 2lbs give or take. If it snaps it's going to need tempering but isn't outright hazardous as quenched just laying there.

If it doesn't break hit it HARD. If it breaks it's probably a mid range of carbon, unlikely in a tire lug unless the new specs are way different. It'll make dandy things that need strength without being brittle, say wrenches or chisels.

Okay, so the file skates or it breaks on one of the hardness tests. On to testing it's temper range. First shine it up either with a file or sand paper then gradually heat one end and watch the colors run. Stop heating and cool it in water when the end in the fire is blue and the other end is either still silvery or is turning tan. Cooling it in water will NOT make it harder, it's well below critical (non-magnetic) temp so don't worry.

Next put it in the vise with just a little of one end exposed. Which end you start with can be decided by the steel's reaction to the hardening tests. If it shattered like glass start with the blue end exposed as it's the least brittle. So, with the intended test victim exposed give it a sharp smack with a hammer. covering it with something for a scatter shield is a good idea but makes it harder to aim so wear even more safety gear and maybe put a box full of rags behind it to catch flying bits.

The tan end will be the hardest and the blue end the least hard so take it a step at a time till you find the temper color that gives you the hardness and or resilience you're looking for.

Taking notes is a REALLY good idea so you'll know what you did to what down the road.

Frosty the Lucky.

Frosty,
That was one of the best explanations of a practical method of testing relatively unknown steel I have ever seen. I've read quite a few such explanations from several sources. Yours is far and away the easiest to follow and understand. Thanks.

On a related note, I am told that hardened bolts showing a yellowish or bronze-like color may contain cadmium which can be risky to heat because of the fumes. Don't know for sure - just passing on what I've heard.

Bill

[pkrankow]

Frosty,
That was one of the best explanations of a practical method of testing relatively unknown steel I have ever seen. I've read quite a few such explanations from several sources. Yours is far and away the easiest to follow and understand. Thanks.

On a related note, I am told that hardened bolts showing a yellowish or bronze-like color may contain cadmium which can be risky to heat because of the fumes. Don't know for sure - just passing on what I've heard.

Bill

Mechanical zinc plating can have any color under the sun added to it. Electroplate is generally thiner, hot dip thicker, but mechanical plating does not use heat and provides a very uniform coating.

So YES colored coatings on bolts should be treated with suspicion and extreme care, or coating removal, should be taken before heating.

Zinc can be removed with an overnight soak in vinegar (or muriatic acid or several other household chemicals). I am unsure about cadmium, but I suspect that the vinegar will take it too.

Phil

[pkrankow]

Apparently something reconnected since that Great White Birch attacked, Frosty. You have had some very sharp posts this week! Keep it up!

Phil

[Crunch]

Frosty,

Thank you very much for taking the time and trouble to give me that detailed explanation. That one's going into the reference files on my hard drive!

C

[Frosty]

Aw heck Phil, thanks.

My pleasure C. Passing this along is part of why hanging around here with smiths is a good thing.

As someone just said,the gold plated can be dangerous though not necessarily cad. If it IS cad it can be REALLY bad news. Zinc isn't so bad if you ventilate and use some sense but it's always better to not breath it than get over it. Eh?

Frosty the Lucky.

[arftist]

I agree with the others Frosty, simple impeccable logic. Thanks Have you ever thought of writing a book?

[junker]

def saving that reference, thanks frosty :lol:

[Frosty]

I agree with the others Frosty, simple impeccable logic. Thanks Have you ever thought of writing a book?

You want a book? Even after how long my last ramble was? It is a simple logical process I should've been able to describe it in one page or less not three. I'm just passing on something I've heard from others, read and been shown. I think Alex Bealer described the same process and I'm sure Alexander Weygers did.

Actually my main reason for not writing a book is you should NEVER make up long stories or folk will figure out you're BSing em. Okay, sure this IS a BS site still. . .

Frosty the Lucky.

[arftist]

You want a book? Even after how long my last ramble was? It is a simple logical process I should've been able to describe it in one page or less not three. I'm just passing on something I've heard from others, read and been shown. I think Alex Bealer described the same process and I'm sure Alexander Weygers did.

Actually my main reason for not writing a book is you should NEVER make up long stories or folk will figure out you're BSing em. Okay, sure this IS a BS site still. . .

Frosty the Lucky.

Sure that info is out there, I am not saying you invented it, but that you explained it well, and in a way a simple fellow like me can follow, without my eyes glazing over. Like many of your explanetary posts, comlete, simple, useful.

[ianinsa]

Tell me, Frosty if one does'nt breathe Zinc fumes do you still have to take the zinc tablets? I think your explanation gets you up there with yoda!
Ian