Uses for metal (what to make what out of)

[Agita]

So My stepfather decides to break an axle on his tractor tailor last night ..., as he is taking a load to Florida, thats bad.
I end up with a ~2"+ thick ~3' axle,.. thats good.

But just last night I was reading in a Blacksmith book that one should not make things that need to be tempered hard out of such an axle.
Says they have low carbon content and won't temper hard at all.

I was thinking of making a hammer and some hardie tools out of that thing. Should it be done? or will I be wasting my time and make a hammer that will mar, and a hot or cold cut that won't hold an edge.

Thanks in advance.

[petere76]

Agita,

I have made tooling out of scrap axles. Treat as you would any HC steel. Normalize, work and then heat treat. Made a small set hammer, for tight corners, out of an old dodge axle and it works great. The flatter was too big a foot print for the piece and I needed more mass in the tool itself to prevent the tool from deforming. This small tool has proved itself well in service.

Peter

[ThomasPowers]

From a fellow that worked in the plant that made axles:

" industry standard was 1045H below 1 3/8" stock and 1541H for axles above that size, for trucks. This was a chain of plants that is one of only about 3 big companies making axles in the US. The customers set the spec. This was reported to me to have been the material in the US for at least the previous 20 years. The H is a modified version of the steels. These modified steels are heat treated and quenched in scanning induction heaters and are finished to a "case and core". These modified steel are much more prone to quench cracking than plain 1045/1050, and I would suggest quenching in oil. These steels are also prone to grain growth if held at forging temp for very long without working the steel. We also had a 45 minute time limit from quench to temper.
I brought home many drops and several of the local smiths have tried this steel for hammers and were successful.

We did use 4140 for some of the very large axles used in off road equipment like big front end loaders. Thee axles are not usually induction heat treated, but are furnace treated. The axle diameters of up to 6" would probably not be a good case for "case and core" by induction."

I myself think it would be a good hammer stock 41 points is not a low carbon steel; it's medium carbon and a hammer profits from *not* being too hard and a fragmentation grenade in use!

[pkrankow]

Passable for a blade, not a very good choice though. Should make punches and chisels OK. Hammers, drifts, and set tools (top or bottom) are choice. May want to keep a piece as a small anvil for in the vise.

You can also make anything that can be done with lesser metal like ornamentation.

Phil

[Agita]

Wow thanks, guess I'll be making some after all. Need a hot cut pretty bad not to mention a few other things. I just got to figgure out how to cut the stuff I havn't bought a band-saw yet.

It is a '05 Peterbilt that it came out of, lucky he had a few spares lying around.


What kind of stuff like that would be Ideal for tools like hardie cutters and Dies ? I hit the scrapyard and junkyards all the time: as well as parts like this axle floating around. What should I look out for in the massive piles of xxxx. :D

[pkrankow]

Got an old ax or hatchet that you can live without? Use that as a hot cut with a hammer to section it down some. You can re-heat threat the head if you want later.

It is only 2 inch so a hacksaw will work reasonable. You may need to normalize or anneal first...but I would try all the same if that was all I had. A 4 inch grinder with a cutoff wheel will just get through, 4 1/2 or larger would be better, may still need to do that last 1/2 inch with a hacksaw...

There are more options I am sure such as having a rest or support for the cold end and forging on the hot end. You can make your hot cut and only have a 1/2 inch piece to cut when you are done. Get a friend to strike for you if you can. Use half face blows to nibble the metal down if you don't have a striker. Also make sure you forge the end down to a blunt point before trying to draw out or flatten. This will prevent the end from becoming fish lips.

Phil

[John B]

A 4 inch grinder with a cutoff wheel will just get through, 4 1/2 or larger would be better, may still need to do that last 1/2 inch with a hacksaw...

Rotate the shaft as you cut it with the cut off wheel, or do it from 4 entry points towards the centre, you do not have to go through from only one side.

[Sam Thompson]

If you use an axe or hatchet as a top set, be careful that you don't split the eye. They weren't made to be struck like that.

[bigfootnampa]

I agree with Thomas Powers that this steel is an excellent stock for hammers... just about the right size too. Don't get in a hurry to cut it... try to get all the work that you can done while it is long enough to use the cold end as a handle. Hammer shapes are relatively challenging to grip firmly with tongs and there is no such thing as a "short heat" on a hammer sized chunk of metal. Operations like slitting and drifting, and rough shaping and sizing, as well as peen shaping can usually be done while you have a long billet to work with... and 3 feet is a pretty convenient size to work with.

[Thinus]

petere76

Thanks for your photos of your small set hammer.

I also like the design of your handle could you place a photo of the front part of the hammer.

Thanks
Thinus

[Agita]

Speaking of that hammer is that 2 holes drilled and then forge welded on top?

@bigfoot
-Thanks for the advice I already started making a pair of giant hammer tongs,
might have just saved me a bunch of trouble. I was planning on cutting first


Anyone know if this would do for making a flatter? Or would it be a ton of work upsetting ?

[petere76]

Agita,

Tried to post pics on the site today but apparently it is not taking photos. Perhaps IFI they should spend less time on fluff such as face book and twitter integration and more time on making the site function as intended.

I noted that the forge magic site has no problems loading photos.

Peter

[Frosty]

It'll make fine hammers and sets. The attached pics are one I made with help from a broken Ford Pickup axle. Mark's ford Pickup unfortunately. The pic with the handle shows the handle I like. It's based on Uri Hofi's hammer handle but with my own distinct improvements. That's just the round end that's a little larger than the widest grip section, it's a safety feature that makes it far more unlikely the hammer can slip out of your hand in full swing. That may not sound too likely to happen to you but just wait till you've been at it a couple hours and get tired. The flat taper of the handle makes it a LOT easier to hold onto, this equates to a whole lot less tiring which means greater control and safer.


The pics without the handle show the pein profile, it's a turning or rounding hammer. I drew the temper by inserting the yellow hot eye drift in the eye after hardening. This provides a nice progressive temper so the eye is softer and less likely to fracture in use while the face and pein are working hard. Knowing what I know now I would've left the pein and face at a pale to medium straw, they could be a little harder than they are. Still, it's a darned nice to use and effective mid weight hammer.

Using a hack saw on your axle is no big deal, I'm out of shape right now but could still do a clean cut in under half an hour. The (insider sekret:rolleyes: ) is to know the correct TPI to stock thickness ratio for metal cutting blades. This is 3 teeth on the stock at all points of contact. This allows the most efficient bite pressure per tooth without jamming and most importantly provides the proper amount of relief so cuttings won't interfere in the cut. Don't worry, it's unlikely you're going to find hand hacksaw blades with the "correct" TPI/stock ratio, nobody makes TPI blades like THAT. What'll work really well for you is anything under 10TPI though 3TPI would be a treat. Do NOT use 14-18 or finer TPI blades, the cuttings will literally float the teeth off the stock till they jam it in the cut. What cut there will be.

Oh yeah, use a little parafin wax and rub it lightly on both sides of the blade once every couple hundred strokes. Do NOT rub wax into the teeth or it'll melt, stick the cuttings and jam your blade like glue! Just a little itsy bit will make cutting much easier as a lubricant but a gob will have you putting a week's wages in the cuss jar!

Frosty the Lucky.

[canada goose]

anyone have any idea what kind of steel the tracks off a 50's era oliver crawler tractor would be ? Of course there are 3 parts to it, the pins,the chain(or rail),and the grouser plates.I have a rather large supply in the form of two worn out tracks on a machine im rebuilding. I'll start experimenting but it's possible the collective knowledge here can save me some missteps.

[John B]

Don't know about that specific machine, but have used the pins for punches and drifts, and the main track plates for hardies and swage type applications from old tracks from other vehicles