Can't find an anvil?

[philip in china]

Sam, there is s little writeup about the Vaughan anvils in Anvils in America. That's where I got my information from.

I recently picked up a 280 pound Brooks and I haven't had a chance to use it yet. Hopefully this weekend. I'm sure I will enjoy it immensely...

My main anvil is a 280 pound Brooks. It rings like a bell so use hearing protection. It really is a sweet, sweet anvil. Of course you must not confude them with Vaughns (check the spelling)which are not the same. You will love it.

I use their on line catalogue to get ideas for making tooling but realistically can't afford to have their products shipped out here. I did get my anvil, a vice and a hardie sent here when I started my shop and although they ended up costing more than I like to think of I am so pleased that I got them.

[Bluefeather]

My anvil is a 197# Hay-Budden that my grandfather used. Dad rescued it when we got into smithing last month. He's also got my other grandfathers anvil in his shed. The "freebies" are out there, just a matter of luck mostly.

[philip in china]

What we get on the site is people who can't find a free anvil or one for a lot less than it is worth. I bought mine retail. I am sure they would have been happy to have sold me 2! Why not try an anvil manufacturer or importer?

[Sam Falzone]

You can still find good deals out there, but they're not going to come up and bite you in the butt. You have to get out there and find THEM.
I proved that just a few hours ago. I've been looking for a heavier anvil - I currently use a 120lb, which is fine and I'm not parting with it, but I just wanted a bit more mass. I was hoping to find a 200lb anvil at a auction tomorrow, but I instead decided to stop in at a salvage yard today after work and that's where I found her - a 175lb Peter Wright . Not the 200lbs I was hoping for, but 175lb is a reasonable compromise and the price was too good to pass up ... I paid $250.00 before taxes - that works out to $1.40/lb before taxes ( around $1.70/lb after taxes). She's got some battle scars and a bit of chipping at the edges, but there's still lots of life in her. If you want to get an anvil, you have to be willing to do the leg-work and you have to suck-it-up and actually shell out some cash for one - even a used one.

Sam

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

You're still going to the auction-----right?

[Dragons lair]

What we get on the site is people who can't find a free anvil or one for a lot less than it is worth. I bought mine retail. I am sure they would have been happy to have sold me 2! Why not try an anvil manufacturer or importer?

Phil I just gotta clinb on the box for this one. I have newbies in HS some in grade school. They got no money
no good job. Parents aint rich. HMMM look for free or cheap or give up. After working 50 yrs I can't afford a
new anvil. I have 5-6 totaling over 500 lbs for less than you paid for your big one. No I won't give one away
make um work for it or sell it cheaper than new. Just saying we need to help the young ones not discourage them.
Rant over will go stand inna corner now.
Ken

[chyancarrek]

Ditto to ya Ken.

Just remember guys, when you sling around phrases like "you're not trying hard enough" or " they won't come up and bite you in the butt" or "quit yer bellyachin'" etc., some newbie out there is pulling their hands back from the keyboard after working up the courage to ask their first question. Certainly, there's no shortage of folks who want something for nothing but give them the chance to make that clear before you make blanket criticisms.

When I started, I looked for almost two years before I found my anvil - Why? Because I didn't know what I was doing, or what to look for or where to find it - thanks to the help of some real patient folk, I got an anvil. Nobody here popped into the world with a hammer in their hand or an anvil to use it on - we're supposed to be helping each other out, not wagging our fingers at others because we've suddenly transitioned to being a "have" instead of a "have not".

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

The big thing is keeping your eyes open, and asking around. A friend located Dad's big Fisher in the CA foothills for us. My big Sodefors came from a machine shop auction, the small no name was a school shop sale, my HB, and JHM were Craigslist finds within a month of each other, and I still need to ask about the one that has been sitting on the ground outside of a nearby shop where I live. I spotted a 390# Trenton across a field while attending a yard sale-not for sale, and he uses it for a decoration. I am going to work on him some about that They are out there, but in the mean time get to scrounging up a good hunk of scrap steel, and MAKE one so you can get working :D

[Sam Falzone]

Ditto to ya Ken.

Just remember guys, when you sling around phrases like "you're not trying hard enough" or " they won't come up and bite you in the butt" or "quit yer bellyachin'" etc., some newbie out there is pulling their hands back from the keyboard after working up the courage to ask their first question. Certainly, there's no shortage of folks who want something for nothing but give them the chance to make that clear before you make blanket criticisms.

You know ... you're absolutely right.

Looking back I realize that my choice of words were a bit too harsh and I appologize to any new smiths who may have been put off by my statement - you really have come to the right place for asking questions and learning about this great craft. My statement was made out of frustration and carelessness other than any intent to discourage.

BUT ... the underlying message is still the same.
-Be Patient (I know that's hard)
-Save Your Money - bit at a time - if you can
-KEEP ASKING and KEEP LOOKING.LoLook also in the not so obvious places.
Keep checking Craigslist, Kijiji, local auction lists, scrap yards, architectural salvage yards, garage/yard sales, church sales, if someone's flogging it - go check it out if you can
-Make connections with other local smith groups - maybe someone will take you on as a mentor and give you access to some shop time and maybe access to THEIR connections.

It might mean you'll have to travel a bit to pick one up, or maybe ask a favour of someone to help you pick one up - but hey, that's what we're here for. Asking is cheap - the worst someone can say is "no". You'll have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Sam

[chyancarrek]

"Asking is cheap - the worst someone can say is "no" . You'll have nothing to lose and everything to gain."
Nicely said and great advice on where to look Sam!

[ThomasPowers]

I get to run *all* my hobbies and vices on an allowance of US$20 a week, that's fleamarket money, bad movie night beer money, book money, propane and stock money, build a 600 sq foot shop addition money, etc. At times I get to add a birthday gift or sell something to juice up the funds a bit; but most of the time I'm "broke" between allowance days. (of course sticking to a budget we always have money in the bank I can "borrow" and pay it back out of my allowance.---why I sometimes say my allowance is $20 +- $1000)

So I'm big on the find:scrounge:make and make do meme---many folks consider that I'm bragging when I tell how I bought a 515 pound Fisher in mint condition for $350; and yes I am a bit but more I am trying to tell folks that they CAN get started on a reasonable amount of money. I once built a beginner kit for under $25: forge, blower, anvil, basic tools just to show it can be done!

However the first step *is* to step away from the keyboard and out into the world and start hunting locally! Bemoaning the lack of a good cheap anvil on forums may be keeping you from finding out that there is a broken RR coupler knuckle or old fork lift tine, or mangled piece of bulldozer, or chunk of scrap steel, or... that would work perfectly well to get you started and take the pressure off your finances and anvil hunt.

I wish I had a digital copy of a picture from our last SWABA meeting: I did a viking fire steel using a viking style forge that cost basically *nothing* and a "travel anvil" about a 4.5" cube with a spike on one end to go into a stump---about 25 pounds in weight. *no* horn, yet I'm curling the ends of the fire steel with no problem.

The internet is a massive resource and can help a lot; but at some time you do need to put down the keyboard and pick up the hammer!

[Mainely,Bob]

One thing to keep in mind is that you will rarely see something like an anvil or a swage block at a flea mkt because they are just too much trouble to lug around.
If you see any smithing tools on or near the table it always pays to ask where they came from and if there`s more.
You`d be surprised how many times I`ve been able to get contacts/leads on things like anvils,forges,etc from folks who bought only what they could easily carry and left the rest.Once I got there the seller was usually willing to bargain as the "good stuff"(meaning easily toted off and sold items)had already gone.

When I first started serious `smithing I had given my old anvil to a friend when we moved and was looking for one up here on the coast to replace it.The add I answered offered "Blacksmith tools",that was it.Among the things were 2 anvils,a no name 150# in good condition(which I bought) or a 300#+ Peter Wright in excellent condition,my choice-$100 for either.I took the 150 because it was easier to load and I felt it would be easier to deal with as we were renting a house at the time.The seller originally had 4 anvils and the 2 left were the heavier ones.I was not the first to pass on the 300+ beast.
When people comment on my good luck finding tools(I feel it has nothing to do with luck and a lot to do with beating the bushes and making contacts)I tell them this story.I still feel stupid for not picking the Wright anvil,especially now that I`m hunting something in the 250#+ range so I can give my 150 to my son.

[Sam Falzone]

I get to run *all* my hobbies and vices on an allowance of US$20 a week, that's fleamarket money, bad movie night beer money, book money, propane and stock money, build a 600 sq foot shop addition money, etc. At times I get to add a birthday gift or sell something to juice up the funds a bit; but most of the time I'm "broke" between allowance days. (of course sticking to a budget we always have money in the bank I can "borrow" and pay it back out of my allowance.---why I sometimes say my allowance is $20 +- $1000)

My wife has me on an allowance too. And I thought I was the only lucky one out there.
I get $100.00 out of every paycheque (every two weeks) for tools and supplies for my various hobbies/crafts - which I also augment with "found" money (birthdays, christmas, selling stuff, etc). Sometimes I can squirrel it all away, sometimes only part of it and sometimes we need to use it all to pay bills - that's just the way life is. It's a great idea if you can fit it into your family budget - whether it's $10, $20, $100 or any amount you can swing, it's a little bit of something you can stuff away in a coffee can somewhere and slowly let it accumulate until you're ready to make that big tool purchase. Patience and perseverence is the key. ;)

[Sam Falzone]

You're still going to the auction-----right?

Actually ... no.
You see, I went to the salvage yard after work with my wife - my wife and I commute to work together and she loves to visit the salvage yard as much as I do (sometimes more, I think).
We also needed to go the auction tonight straight from work to make it in time ... so when I found that anvil right in the doorway of the salvage yard and heard what they were asking for it, my wife pinned me with the look of death and said, "So we don't need to go to the auction, RIGHT?!".
Survival instincts kicked in ... I kept my yap shut and nodded my head ( ... my momma didn't raise no fool ...).

[ThomasPowers]

I used to look for "old barn clean out" stuff and ask about tools left behind; but while that worked my best deals turned out to be just asking *everybody*. That big Fisher I got came from being at a fleamarket when a fellow selling greasy car parts that I wouldn't have fished out of a dumpster for free "howdy'd me" So I stop a moment and tell him I'm hunting an anvil---turned out his uncle had one he wanted to sell---about 5 miles from my house *in* the city to boot.

I did pick up a mint vulcan once cause I saw a small hardy in some plumbing junk; anvil was at home under a dollar a pound...I sold it on the next day to a new smith for a $10 profit to cover the gas and time I spent getting it.

Think of it this way: If 1 out of every 1000 people knows where there is an anvil hiding and you talk with 5000 people what are your odds?

Now affinity networks work better as folks who *know* you will be more likely to check things out and hunt you down to tell you; so: friends, relations, church, MMRPGs, etc; but that person in line at the store checkout may be the one you have been waiting for!

It seems like once you have one they start coming easier as folks see it and say---you know there's one of those at...
And it can get weird. I had a fellow come up to me that had a 400# anvil, battered old copper mine anvil, looks to be a Trenton. Well he wanted a *smaller* anvil that he could travel around with. So I traded him a 125# PW that I had found doing a test drive for our car, (saw a postvise leaning against an old barn, went back and talked to the owner---in his 80's and happy to get some windfall cash!). Also he wanted a screw and screwbox for a postvise---I had a good one given to me along with a trashed vise, and $100 boot. So I had about $200 in the deal.

CONSTANT VIGILANCE! (and ready money---if you have to wait to make the deal a good deal often disappears!)

[philip in china]

Sorry if I upset anybody. It's just that supply and demand dictate a price level and broadly that is the price.

BTW as most of you know I am moving my shop in a couple of weeks. I have already given away 1 anvil to a group of disabled Chinese workers trying to set up a shop in their village. I shall be leaving another anvil here for Sean so he can continue to work in the school smithy. That is a 242 pound Rhino- one of the prototypes I was testing a while back. Also leaving him the concrete base! He is a good deal taller than I am so I used the forklift to put the whole thing on some 6 x 6 timbers so it is at the correct height for him.

So now I am down to the 280 pound brooks, a 142 pound Rhino- which is my travelling anvil and a 342 Rhino which will be used for the students' work. I have a channel iron cover for the brooks to prevent students from damaging it. That also doubles as a base for my shear.

[evfreek]

I used to get upset about people telling me that I wasn't hard enough or that I really don't understand what's going on. Eventually, I found out that they usually mean no harm. They are just a little bit narrow in their views, and one should not have hard feeling about it.

The IT guy in the last company I was in was kind of like this. He would get right in your face and give you his opinion, along with a drenching of saliva. No hard feelings. He was just very insistent. Once he told me that there's no way you can lose money in California real estate. I asked him, how about post Loma Prieta core Silicon Valley. There was a 15% downward blip that caught many speculators with liquidity problems. I knew one who went down. He replied, "Those are idiots, and they don't count." I then asked about San Fernando Valley after the defense crunch and the resulting 50% drop. He replied, "That's not really part of California." Perfectly nice guy; just a little narrow in his viewpoint. Probably did not get out much.

All this talk about not trying hard enough sounds the same. When I was younger, it made me feel awfully frustrated. Now I just see it as a narrow viewpoint. And this is not being said to downgrade anybody. It is just an observation, and no one should get upset about it. I see these people as living in an "anvil-rich" (credit to Thomas for the term) area. They see anvils for sale on craigslist or at local garage sales for great prices. If you never travel anywhere else, this looks pretty much like the way things are world 'round.

At the end of last year, I saw an ad on Craigslist for a fab shop liquidation about an hour or two's drive away. This was kind of far, but I was able to combine trips and make it out there. Sure enough, when I pulled in, there was a huge anvil. SCORE!!!!!!!!!!! Must have been about 400 pounds. Sorry, the fellow said. The anvil is not for sale. But, this one is for sale. And he pulled out a little brass paperweight anvil. It was about 1 pound. I shrugged my shoulders, and ended up buying that little brass anvil. It's cute. And it reminds me about otherwise well-meaning people telling me that I'm not trying hard enough.

[Mainely,Bob]

I used to get upset about people telling me that I wasn't hard enough or that I really don't understand what's going on. Eventually, I found out that they usually mean no harm. They are just a little bit narrow in their views, and one should not have hard feeling about it.

The IT guy in the last company I was in was kind of like this. He would get right in your face and give you his opinion, along with a drenching of saliva. No hard feelings. He was just very insistent. Once he told me that there's no way you can lose money in California real estate. I asked him, how about post Loma Prieta core Silicon Valley. There was a 15% downward blip that caught many speculators with liquidity problems. I knew one who went down. He replied, "Those are idiots, and they don't count." I then asked about San Fernando Valley after the defense crunch and the resulting 50% drop. He replied, "That's not really part of California." Perfectly nice guy; just a little narrow in his viewpoint. Probably did not get out much.



Some people aren`t interested in understanding something,their main focus in a conversation is to come out on top.
While they can be very entertaining you don`t end up learning much from them,at least not much about the topic under discussion.