Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 This is as close as I need! Quote
David Einhorn Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 With that clock, you must have an interesting way of calculating labor costs. Monday plus Tuesday times half-past Thursday. :D Quote
wedwards Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 Nakedanvil, My bet is that you are retired. I hope to be in about 6 mo. Where can I find one of those? Bill Quote
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted November 4, 2009 Author Posted November 4, 2009 Wedwards: How'd you guess? Try here:Amazon.com: day clock Quote
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted November 4, 2009 Author Posted November 4, 2009 Unicorny: I NEVER calculated a price based on time. Put "perceived value" in your vocabulary. Quote
wedwards Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 Wedwards: How'd you guess? Try here:Amazon.com: day clock I just kinda had a feelin'. Thanks for the link. Bill Quote
Fe-Wood Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 (edited) Ah, perceived value. based on who's perception???? Love the clock- just wish it had another day in it Edited November 4, 2009 by Fe-Wood spelling Quote
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted November 4, 2009 Author Posted November 4, 2009 Has to be the customers perception, right? How do you think they sell "art", by the pound?:D Quote
beth Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 nakedanvil do you seriously never do price based on time???( never know when you lot being serious...) Quote
Dragons lair Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 But its 5 oclock nowhere. No beer 30 either. (grin) Ken. Quote
David Einhorn Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 Unicorny: I NEVER calculated a price based on time. Put "perceived value" in your vocabulary. Dang, and I spent all those hours listening to professional smiths lecture on how to price work. I am truly a complete fool. :D Quote
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted November 4, 2009 Author Posted November 4, 2009 When was the last time you BOUGHT something based how long you thought it took to make it? You BUY on the basis of perceived value, right? Well, that's how your customer thinks too. Quote
Fe-Wood Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 Thats why I asked about who perceives the value. I always thought the maker did as in "thats what the market will bare" Case in point, I'm working on metal spinning. I spun 5 pcs yesterday that "should" have taken about 1 hr. but it took me 2. I'm still learning so I base my sale price not on how long they take but what I feel they are worth. I figure, I'm being paid to learn. Quote
JNewman Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 So Grant, how do you determine what they perceive the value to be. And what do you do when their perceived value is lower than your perceived value. Quote
Bentiron1946 Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 My wife was wearing one of my wrought silver neck pieces the other day and a woman asked her if she would sell it, she said she'd call me and ask. I told my wife to ask $250 for it as I didn't want to sell it. The woman just handed her the money and just walked away as happy as if she were in her right mind. I had $25 worth of silver in it and about 2 hours of forging time. That woman certainly had a different perception of value than I had. If I was intending to sell it I would have priced it at around $150 not $250. "Perceived Value" is very different between the sexes and social/economic classes of society. Quote
beth Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 i suppose you just got to make em want it badly enough! then you can name YOUR percieved value... Quote
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted November 4, 2009 Author Posted November 4, 2009 i suppose you just got to make em want it badly enough! then you can name YOUR percieved value... No, actually "making them want it enough" is building their perceived value of it. Quote
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted November 4, 2009 Author Posted November 4, 2009 So Grant, how do you determine what they perceive the value to be. And what do you do when their perceived value is lower than your perceived value. How'd we end up down this path? Determining the perceived value can mean building the perceived value or weighing the customers options. Much artistic stuff is sold by the artists ability to build value. Much industrial stuff is based on available options. I've done some bending jobs that "had" to be done and I was the only one who could (or knew how to) do it. I've had jobs that turned $500.00 per hour because I could do them and it was still the best option for the customer. One forging job I used to do a lot was keel bolts for Coast Guard (wooden) Minesweepers. These were 1-1/4 silicone bronze with a 2-1/2" countersink head around three feet long. The yard had been buying 2-1/2" bronze and turning them down. I started making the heads by upsetting the end on 1-1/4" and beating them into a header with a sledge. So, how did I price them? By the 15 minutes it took me to do each one? No, I just determined what they were paying for three feet of 2-1/2" silicone bronze and charged them that! They saved a ton of machining. Perceived value. Quote
beth Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 but if you build their percieved value of it then it might get a bit more realistic... people here (everywhere??) want to buy cheap crapola... if they want it badly enough then maybe that could over ride the tug of something inferior and cheaper.. i have to be honest - i think pricing is a total nightmare that i wish didnt exist! at least the hourly thing is kind of tangible. i admire your 'out there' approach tho.. i just want the customer to really want the work..! Quote
John B Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 Beth, don't judge what customers will pay for an item by your standards, If they had the skills to make them, you wouldn't have a customer. Unless you are planning to market mass produced items then that is competing with the 'crapola'. Concentrate on making the unique items and deal in exclusivity and quality. Thats what people will pay for. Individuality is our speciality and we are making tomorrows antiques, not just fashion statements. Quality lasts and sets items aside from the general stuff available, even the hand forged Chinese imports that are just fabricated into wrought iron pieces One of the reasons ironwork is not as popular this year as it was a couple of years ago is because the fashion / media industry dictates otherwise. Price is after all a comfortable arrangement between yourself and your clients, Don't sell yourself short Quote
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted November 4, 2009 Author Posted November 4, 2009 Ya just gotta bring more to the table than the competition. One of the biggest places I've seen blacksmiths fall flat was in "on time" delivery. Really hurts your value when word gets around. Also people doing the same thing as ten other blacksmiths. Nothing drives down price like seeing ten guys all with similar dinner bells. You gotta be distinctive! You wanna get paid better than average, you gotta BE better than average. In industrial work, customers seem to really like "single source". If it's got to be heat treated, machined, plated, painted, X-rayed, what ever. They will often pay you more than getting those things done themselves. And that way they only have one person to come back on, rather than trying for figure out who is at fault too. That's worth a lot to them. Another mistake I've seen is people want more work. I've seen people lower their prices to get more work and end up doing more work for the same money! What you really want is less work and more money. So, if you're missing a few jobs, don't worry about it. If you're getting most of the jobs, your price is too low. Price is one thing and one thing only...........a tool used to control demand! Quote
Fe-Wood Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 Individuality is our speciality and we are making tomorrows antiques, not just fashion statements. I like that!!! I've never seen it put so perfectly. I hope you don't mind if I use it:D Quote
myloh67 Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 Looks good Grant apart from the fact...still ledgible. Quote
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted November 7, 2009 Author Posted November 7, 2009 Looks good Grant apart from the fact...still ledgible. myloh67: I don't understand. Quote
Jeff Bly Posted March 5, 2011 Posted March 5, 2011 I've seen people lower their prices to get more work and end up doing more work for the same money! What you really want is less work and more money. So, if you're missing a few jobs, don't worry about it. If you're getting most of the jobs, your price is too low. Hi Grant. Could you perhaps elaborate a bit on this? I have heard it said many many times now, that you should NEVER turn down jobs, as it helps you stay afloat during down times and that people will go elsewhere. However I'm primarily interested as to the price for work correlation. Quote
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