Rattlecat Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 Mm, you're right. But it would help to get the tools to begin with. I have no idea of the craft yet aside from what I've read on IForgeIron.com's inventory, so attempting to make a hammer might not be the greatest idea for me just yet. I've got a list of places to visit this weekend, so I'll have to definitely check it out. Our shed has yet to be cleaned out as well. It use to be an automotive shop from what I can tell. It may have some items I can start with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Don't move until you get a chance to go to Quad-State! Put on by SOFA the last full weekend in September just above Dayton OH. Largest annual blacksmith conference in the world! And it's CHEAP! And you can camp out there to cut costs! I'll be driving in form New Mexico, Rich usually shows up from the US Virgin Islands, Darrell from Canada...; it's *that* good. All the new and used smithing equipment, supplies, books *everything*! A group of us off the web camp together for potlucks and shooting the bull and you and your fiancee would be welcome. This year's focus is on traditions aspects of blacksmithing. (Usually 4 or 5 demos going on at the same time one is always knifemaking/patternwelding.)Southern Ohio Forge and Anvil (SOFA) Blacksmith Association but the Quad-State link is not filled out yet on the demonstrators. Now as far as "traditional blade making" goes you are a bit off base. The traditional bladesmith's shop will have at least a half dozen workers in it. The smith will NOT be the one to grind the blade and the grinder is not one to hilt it. In medieval times these were separate guilds even and doing the work of a different guild was punishable by having your shop pulled down. The earliest powerhammer I can document is pre year 1000. This doing it all yourself is a MODERN mindset not traditional! The Japanese have maintained the traditional roles fairly well with the smelter, smith, grinder/polisher, hilter and scabbard makers all being different. Now if you want to do it all you can and even using earlier methods; but it won't be they way *they* did it! Folks didn't have the capital resources to have the tools to do all the different things and let all the rest of them sit idle while they were using just one set. Frontier America was a bit of a special case where there were not a lot of extra people around; however most blades actually came from England and France from places that specialized in making knives! Don't worry about size, get yourself a good leather apron sized for you and perhaps a sturdy portable platform to stand on when visiting other smiths and getting a chance to use their equipment (building it so it's also a tool chest for your favorite hammers, tongs, etc would be a neat way to do it.) When I teach I provide a range of anvil heights and we have one that would probably suit you fine! OTOH, there was one anvil set up at SOFA for a member that was about 6'4" and *nobody* else could use it comfortably. Check out "The Backyard Blacksmith: Traditional Techniques for the Modern Smith" (ISBN: 1592532519 / 1-59253-251-9), Sims, Lorelei----written by a lady smith And be sure to come up and say Howdy to "the man in the disreputable red hat" at Quad-State! And think about attending classes at the ABS school in Texarkana! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Ferociously expensive ??????????????? I once made a complete beginners set up for under US$25 that included Forge, blower, anvil, basic tools. And it wasn't a toy I used it as my main billet welding forge for several years in preference to the commercially built forges I owned. Also the fanciest tool I used to build it was a 1/4" electric drill I have also done a pattern welding demo on a chunk of railroad rail using a carpenter's claw hammer and a roughly fabbed up sheet metal firepot burning charcoal sieved out of old bonfires in the desert. Don't get hung up on tooling! Experience will go way further! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 You only need a container to hold the fire, something to beat on, and something to beat with in order to get set up. This can be a hole in the dirt, a metal object with a mass of 50 to 100 pounds to beat on (but any size will work), and a ball peen hammer. Total cost can be ZERO, $0.00, zip, nada if you want to scrounge a bit. Keep everything in the automotive shop/shed as most of it can be useful to a blacksmith at some point. No use throwing away something you will have to buy later. IForgeIron has members from all over the world. Their skill and expertise range from beginners to masters of the craft. Bruce Wilcock is a blacksmith that makes (among other things) anvils and anchors. Few master blacksmiths make their own anvils, but it can be done. Not everyone makes hammers, anvils, and anchors, or is interested in making them, but the knowledge is available to those that are interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlecat Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 You're definitely right. Experience does get you farther. Guess I'll learn as I go. I'll start planning to attend all the places you guys are suggesting. I think I'd feel better putting all my time and effort into going to such places rather then sitting in one spot wondering what tools to mess around with. Like I've said tons of times before, I appreciate the welcome, and I definitely appreciate the assistance and the feedback you guys have given me quickly. Honestly, I'm probably going to have to print out the lessons and all of the replies you guys have given me to get started. Long road ahead, but hey, who's never up for adventure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Found this on Craigslist: 100 pound anvil for $150. Not far from where you live. It looks in pretty good condition. 100 lb. anvil ---SHER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnr Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 Just jump in and have fun. There are a lot of folks here and in local groups that willbe more than glad to teach you what they know. I got my start in blacksmithing hanging out with the smiths at SCA events because my merchant tent was set up close to them. My first anvil was a section of RR track and I used a couple of hammers I inherited from Dad. The main thing in my opinion is to try until you have success with one process and then add another. In short enjoy the craft , and like any other practice builds skill. Finnr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlecat Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 Just jump in and have fun. There are a lot of folks here and in local groups that willbe more than glad to teach you what they know. I got my start in blacksmithing hanging out with the smiths at SCA events because my merchant tent was set up close to them. My first anvil was a section of RR track and I used a couple of hammers I inherited from Dad. The main thing in my opinion is to try until you have success with one process and then add another. In short enjoy the craft , and like any other practice builds skill. You'd probably laugh if I told you I actually was a part of Amtgard for a couple years. Most people do since for some reason, they seem to believe there's a giant rivalry between Amtgard and SCA. Personally? Never been to an SCA event, never met an SCA person. I'd like to since one of my close friends is doing so. He actually found a blacksmith who wants to interview me for an apprenticeship. Been in the business for 35 years, right in Texas. Kinda hoping it works out, really. While from all the information you've given me, I can get right into it myself, it's still nice to live as an apprentice. But hey, we'll see. Jebus. I never thought I'd walk into a forum and get more then a few replies saying Welcome and enjoy the craft. Been to a couple like that. I really appreciate all the feedback. It's helping immensely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 That anvil in York is a fisher a good brand and *QUIET* they don't ring and so a great anvil to use in cities and suburbia. Decent price too. A good weight for a starter anvil, light enough to move a lot, heavy enough to do some real work. (I moved 6 times the first 6 years we were married...) SOMEONE jump on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 (edited) With art the tools of the trade can be everything from handmade things to get the job done or highly expensive customized or handcrafted tools to do the work. There are .49c paint brushes and 40$ paint brushes. They both will paint. In the hands of the expert the $40 paint brush will mean more. In the hands of the novice it won't matter much. lol That's why I think most here will say that expensive equipment isn't necessary as your not even sure if you will stick with it for any great duration or you may find that you have a different direction in metalwork. You may hate it. You may love it. Watch as many youtube videos as you can on blacksmithing, blademaking and armouring as they are all free and will give you a bit of a intro and you'll be able to see what entices you the most. General blacksmithing isnt a bad place to start though. Then you can decide if you want to hunt for an anvil or something to beat hot metal on as well as decide to buy or build a coal or gas forge. As i'm sure you know with any art rattlecat, it's all babysteps. It is though rather addictive as you can see by everyone here. Books I like (all of these I got through Amazon a few years ago) "The Backyard Blacksmith" By Lorelei Sims "The Complete modern Blacksmith" Alexander G Weygers "The Complete Bladesmith - Forging your way to perfection" Jim Hrisoulas "The Pattern-Welded Blade - Artistry in Iron" Jim Hrisoulas "Techniques of Medieval Armour Reproduction" (TOMAR to armourers) Brian R. Price If I can give you any advice... LET NOTHING STAND IN YOUR WAY! ;) Edited July 16, 2009 by Avadon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meinhoutexas Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Rattlecat beware. You will become addicted to the heat, sweat, noise and smells of the shop1 Then you will bounce off the walls when someone says somthing nice about a project you have just done and are not completly satisfied with but they are wowed about it. Just figured you need to hear that. And by the way welcome to the party! I am also just learning the craft and luckly had a smith take me in because of my day job skills(sert. welder). Again welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlecat Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 I appreciate the welcomes. They just don't seem to stop, nor does the information, and I adore it. I've dug through Borders and am beginning to order some books both original copies and collective archives so I can sit down and read them, next to the information on this site. I do have a question regarding the anvils though, that I just haven't checked out yet. People state that the heavier the anvil, the better. Is there a particular reason for this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratel10mm Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Greater mass under the workpiece means more force transmitted to the workpiece (I think) and better rebound for your hammer, which means less work for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 The larger/heavier the anvil the larger hammer and larger project that you can make. There is a formula for the ratio of hammer to anvil that perhaps someone will provide you. It is said that Francis Whitaker used a ~137 pound anvil. Others swear by much larger anvils. Personally I use a pair of approximately 100 pound anvils for away-from-home demonstrations and a large anvil for my shop anvil. Other considerations apply such as the brand/quality. The Fisher anvil in York that I found on Craigslist is an excellent brand and from the photo the edges and face look to be close to pristine condition. A Fisher anvil of that condition and size could easily sell in our area for twice or more the asking price. An 80 to 100 pound anvil of good quality would be more than adequate for a first anvil, especially for a young person that is likely to change residences. Found this on Craigslist: 100 pound anvil for $150. Not far from where you live. It looks in pretty good condition. 100 lb. anvil ---SHER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratel10mm Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Yeah, and even more over here! Seriously Rattlecat, if you can find the money, BUY IT!!!! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Since the anvil has vanished from the listing on Craigslist, I would conclude that it has been sold. Someone got a very good deal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlecat Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 It wouldn't have been me, unfortunately. I actually contacted the guy five minutes too late! x_@ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 My shop anvil is a 515# fisher; my travel anvil is a 93# Arm and Hammer (not vulcan!). When you hit one side of your work on the anvil with your hammer the anvil is hitting the other side---old Newton's for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. However the more the anvil and stand can move away from the blow the less energy that goes into changing the shape of the hot metal. This is why you need a good stand for an anvil and why a larger anvil "works" better. I sure can tell when I move back to the big anvil after a weekend of using the little one! Also as mentions anvils can be broken if you do too heavy a work on too small of an anvil---breaking off the heel is usually the damaged point. When I have students trying to work with larger stock I usually take a piece of soapstone and draw lines on the anvil and tell them they MUST work only over the center of the anvil and not over the unsupported horn or heel areas---and then I yell at them if they don't follow my instructions. Note such anvils with broken off heels often make great cheap starter anvils; I have one as a loaner for my students, over 100 pounds and cost me US$40 and has a great flat face and ok horn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Excellent points Thomas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Hey Brian, good to see you on here. Wait till you see my tribute anvil to your design. Should be done in a few weeks. I think you'll like it. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Yes, check out the Pennsylvania Artist Blacksmiths Association (PABA). You're in a great area for visiting Hopewell Furnace National Historic Site, the recently built Moravian Smithy in Bethlehem, and The Mercer Museum in Doylestown. And that's just for starters.Turley Forge and Blacksmithing School Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 It appears that Rattlecat has given up on blacksmithing and left the forum: - She stopped posting months ago, - she lives two blocks from two tool dealers that sell affordable blacksmithing equipment and apparently could not get there, - and has not shown up at any area blacksmithing meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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