Black Maple Forge Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Has anyone ever made a gonne (medieval gun- sometimes referred to as a hand cannon)? I have tried (and made one with a 2" opening!). I will probably try to make a smaller one that actually shoots soon (in this one the powder just fizzles violently- the opening is way to large). Just thought I'd ask if anyone has any pointers for me! Yes, I know the "legal" regulations... And the "safety" stuff. Thanks, and enjoy the pictures (most of these are not mounted on their wooden poles yet). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Maple Forge Posted June 29, 2009 Author Share Posted June 29, 2009 I thought 2" would be way too large. I did try a shot, but my missile was an odd shaped rock, and my wad was a small piece of brown bag... Do you have any pictures of his gonne? I would love to see some pictures!:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pault17 Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 at our last ncabana meeting one of the smiths showed everyone a little "cork cannon" that shot a cork more than 30 yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 (edited) What fineness powder are you using? It will fizzle if you are using the black powder substitute. If you are using black powder it will not fizzle. Black powder is and explosive which the black powder substitute, and smokeless powder is not. Do not under any circumstances use smokeless powder in these experiments. Go to muzzle loading sites and look up "proof testing" and Cannons. This is the wrong site to even be discussing these experiments I believe. Edited June 29, 2009 by Charlotte spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Browne Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 A 2" bore would take a "bit" of holding! Nice work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brasilikilt Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Yes, go to www.muzzleloadingforum.com They have 2 separate forums which may be of help One is dedicated to cannons, another is dedicated to pre-flintlock gonnes. I also suspect that you may find some helpful info in the "gun builder's bench" forum as well. I've been active there since '04 and know the forum to be filled with lots of people who are as generous with sharing their knowledge as they are here. good luck and keep us posted Iain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 I have a 2" smoothbore falconette that I fire using F blackpowder with dry newspaper wadding followed by wet newspaper wadding rammed hard. Even without a projectile it gives a mighty booom; but it's not a handgonne! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Maple Forge Posted June 29, 2009 Author Share Posted June 29, 2009 2" with F black powder. Sounds good. How much wadding do you use exactly? It might not be a gonne, but it is about the same size. I am curious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Do the words Proof testing mean anything to you? You should be working with someone who know what they are doing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 (edited) What does Aflack pay for blowing one self up ?Yes, I know the "legal" regulations... And the "safety" stuff.your statement make this look sarcastic, like you don't take it very seriously. Please get professional help with this project before you kill someone. Edited June 29, 2009 by mod07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mod05 Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 In the interest of safety let me say. If you have no idea of the charge it's pretty well impossible to proof the weapon. A proof charge is twice the normal charge set off from a safe ( read that very long ) distance. TO ALL MEMBERS!! research any project ike this very thoroughly before you undertake it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Black Maple Forge If you have not done your homework, that is to say read all you can on the subject AND related subjects, then you are certainly not ready to proceed with testing. in this one the powder just fizzles violentlyThere are a whole list of questions that need ask, such as why did you choose a modern day powder instead of the powder that was originally used in the gonne, and how did you arrived at the powder load (amount of powder)? Did you use a conversion factor? What was the original wadding material used in the gonne and did you use that material or something else? How did you arrived at the wadding material you used, and how did you figure out how much wadding was needed, etc etc. There are vast differences in powders. Did you actually do any proof testing and what were the results? Blast walls can save your life. Lots of open space downrange can save your neighbors life. PLEASE search out those who have gone before you and are still alive to provide you with advice. You are not the first to make a gonne, they are out there, find them, seek their knowledge and advice. Word of advice, you will not find them on YouTube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 After reading the thread, reading several private messages concern for your safety, and reading the thread again, may I suggest you put everything on hold until you can fully research the subject. This would include researching the failure rate of the gonne, the injuries that resulted from those failures, and how many failures resulted in loss of body parts or were fatal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 (edited) I had the advice of several folks stationed at Fort Sill in OK (Artillery school!) back when I built my falconette and they were there for the proof testing (LONG fuse, long distance and a deep ditch!). I still regret they were sent to South Korea before I got a chance to take them up on their offer to bring it out to the Radar Range and "sight it in"...(Didn't have a proper carriage built for a gonne without trunions before they left...) Edited June 29, 2009 by ThomasPowers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 I built a small 2" mortar and it uses F black powder and it indeed does go boom! I cast it in bronze and have cast several hand cannon but I took it slow and didn't just hold the dang thing in my hand to see if it would hold together. Before I sold them I spiked the vent to prevent the next person from firing them. Your guns look nice but I would never, never put a heavy charge in them, strange things happen when black powder goes BOOM!:o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Black powder has no friends Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
territorialmillworks Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Impressive machine work and woodwork... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 What do you mean "black powder has no friends"? I shot the stuff for years with great joy and still would if health permitted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brasilikilt Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Hey all I've shot various types of muzzle loaders for years, built a couple of them and have found that the majority of those instances where really bad failures have happened is from people mistakenly using SMOKELESS POWDER in their guns. ONLY when PROPER FIREARM SAFETY is adhered to, black powder is a forgiving medium to work with. I feel that with the proper precautions, this guy should be able to test his gonne without needing to seek refuge in a bunker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Bent I meant exactly that. It is not your friend. I have also shot it quite a bit and always with the respect that it deserves. I learned the handling and safety responsibilites and have never had an accident. I use proper storage procedures as they are outlined. I know wot to expect from it and enjoy wot it can allow me to do. That in no way implies friendship. I have occasion to handle poisoness snakes and use the same methods for that as with anything that if given a chance may harm me. Preperation, knowledge an experience learned correctly allow us to do and use many things that could cause us pain or worse. It bothers me a lot to see any person experimenting with these kids of things without a lot of research and preperation. Spending time with a person such as yourself may be a good step for anyone new to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy seale Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 well lets see......b/p-a explosive...smokeless=a propellent..not to be interchanged or substituded. example..my reloading book has 3 diffrent sections.. for the 45-70. 1. for rolling block. 2. one for lever action. 3. one for modern t/c or ruger #1.= the same is not the same. please be careful. jimmy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quenchcrack Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 It is interesting how natural selection has a way of weeding out the unfit for reproduction by making them curious about things that go boom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 And an absolute miracle how many of us have still managed to reproduce! (Shoot I still count in decimal!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Maple Forge Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 Black Maple Forge If you have not done your homework, that is to say read all you can on the subject AND related subjects, then you are certainly not ready to proceed with testing. There are a whole list of questions that need ask, such as why did you choose a modern day powder instead of the powder that was originally used in the gonne, and how did you arrived at the powder load (amount of powder)? Did you use a conversion factor? What was the original wadding material used in the gonne and did you use that material or something else? How did you arrived at the wadding material you used, and how did you figure out how much wadding was needed, etc etc. There are vast differences in powders. Did you actually do any proof testing and what were the results? Blast walls can save your life. Lots of open space downrange can save your neighbors life. PLEASE search out those who have gone before you and are still alive to provide you with advice. You are not the first to make a gonne, they are out there, find them, seek their knowledge and advice. Word of advice, you will not find them on YouTube. Well, for the first question, I am using black powder (not smokeless). I am not sure of the powder amount, that is why I am asking if anyone has any suggestions. It is hard to find a lot of information on gonnes nowadays... I am here asking if anyone can help in proper construction, or give any advise compared to muzzleloaders of to-day with similar sized barrels. I am not going to blow off a limb (it was didn't happen too much back in the day, but it can still happen) as I am loading, then propping the gonne in a vice (aimed at metal with wood behind it) in a vacant area, then I light it from a long distance with an old fashioned match (the cord that slowly burns, not the strike on box ones). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Well, for the first question, I am using black powder (not smokeless). I am not sure of the powder amount, that is why I am asking if anyone has any suggestions. It is hard to find a lot of information on gonnes nowadays... If you powder fizzled it was not black powder, or it was wet. No question objections etc... This is an absolute. I suspect that you went to K-mart and bought the black powder substitue which is a ticked out smokeless power desiged to work in certiain dimension work cavities, and not work in your application on purpose. Find a reenactor or other black powder enthusiast on muzzle loading websites. We are about making things not blowing ourselves up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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