SRT02 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 I've gotten into making nails. So far they have worked pretty well. Except I had a few problems with the nails splitting the wood. So I asked around and a friend told me that in his experiences the nails split the wood in a very similar way. We pretty much make our nails the same way and the same length (usually). He told me that if you hammer in the nails a certain way they don't split as much. But I thought if there was a way to hammer them in with no splitting, I'd try to find it. What I did was try to draw out the nail a different way so its not 4 sided. With a more round nail I would have less splitting. Or so I thought. It actually reduced the splitting quite well. But of course there was still some splits that could mess up what ever I going to build. Any ideas on how to fix this problem? And if anyone knows why they are splitting so much? (I tried having the nail going with the grain, but still had some problems) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Thompson Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Carpenters often blunt nails so that they cut the wood fibres rather than forcing them apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Some woods require predrilling to stop splitting. Does the wood split when you use ready made nails? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT02 Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 Nope, only splits with the forged ones. factory nails and such are fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 the wood that was used when nails were hand forged was green not kiln dryed. pre drilling helps. less taper on the nail will help also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 How much taper is there on your nail? I forge nails as pretty much straight sided, square point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT02 Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 I don't taper my nails much, mostly square down until the point. not real sharp end either. The wood thing seems to be the problem. I'll try that and see if there is a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob JS Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 This might have been what your friend told you... The nail should be hammered in so that the long/wide face of the cutting edge cuts across the grain of the wood. The idea is to cut the grain rather than split it - makes a really secure grip too. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT02 Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 Okay, I'll ask him about that but that sounds like its right on the dot. Because each nail I've used takes a real effort to get back out. For example I was nailing some into a dead tree for a hanger in my camp in the woods, and I needed to take it out and I probably spent 5-10 minutes on getting out. It was barely bent as well. So far, I've learned a lot about this stuff. More to it than meets the eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Back to basics, the same piece of wood, the same length nail (say 2 inches), the same overall diameter of nail (say 1/8 inch diameter), the same nail shape (round, square, etc), the same point configuration (blunt, chisel, pointed, etc). Drive the factory nail into the wood (1/2, 2/3, 3/4 of the length of the nail) on 6 inch intervals (0, 6, 12, 18 inches). Now drive a hand made nail into the wood to the same depth (at 3, 9, 15, 21 inches). The 3 inch spacing distance between nails should not to cause a wedge effect and spit the wood, but allow you to see how each nail is individually interacting with the wood. Change one thing at a time, such as predrilling holes with the same drill to the same depth. There is a reason for the problems you are experiencing, you just need to figure out why. Keep good notes (with photos) so you can put it all into a report we can post on IForgeIron. (grin) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnr Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 With kiln dried wood I pre drill for hand forged nails. Just easier forme. Finnr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junker Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Anybody done anything with triangular nails? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jymm Hoffman Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Shanks should be retangular not a square taper. Square tapers are wedges that split the wood. Put the wide side so it cuts the grain. If you are still splitting, then pilot drill the holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug C Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Tke a look here at the Handymans's essential book on google for a litle info on the topic. In short it says put a point on them and make it wedge shaped in all directions for maximum holding power unless there is a real danger of splitting. Also barbs on a nail decrease strength by 30+%. As for shape look here at the Tremont nail catalog for cut nails and you will see many shapes and almost all of them are tapered and almost all have a blunted tip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Ameling Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 The main problem is with the tapered nail shaft pushing the wood fibers apart. So the shaft of the nail needs to be fairly straight on the sides pushing against the wood fibers. The sides going with the wood grain are less affected by a tapered "wedge" shape - especially when the nail "cuts" through those fibers as it is being hammered in. So lots of the early nails had a flat point on them - to "cut" through the wood fibers. Then any "wedge" effect is minimized in the wood. Just some humble thoughts to ponder. Mikey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfshieldrx Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Popular Woodworking - Build Furniture With a Hammer Pretty good article on history and use of nails. Recommends pilot hole for "square cut" nails. bart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug C Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Great article. Thanks for the info. This explains why some of the hooks I have made for the shed have split the 2X4's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Very informative, thanks for the link. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfshieldrx Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 He really delves into the "why's" as well as the "how's". He generally writes on woodworking, but commonly touches on things that may be of interest to blacksmiths...nails, forged hold-downs, etc. He has a blog over on the "Woodworking" magazine site. I have never met the man, but he has promptly answered a couple of email questions from me. bart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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