FrankA Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 I want to buy a utility hammer, new or used. No power hammer experience yet, but lots of anvil work. Work up to 2" stock. I have plenty of air but worry about noise. Any suggestions or offers?Jump to post # 60 for direct answers to this question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweany Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Iron Kiss Hammers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnptc Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 hydraulic presses are quieter but different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy C Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 My favorite is the Big Blu. Plenty of power and exceptionally smooth. They design the hammers so each segment can be filled with sand to deaden the ring so all you get is a thud. They also have the best customer service that I've encountered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 +1 for IronKiss hammers. No sand required. Plus the die system is the same as that used on Saymak/Khun hammers so you dont have to get dies from only one source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 (edited) I think I would have to have a go on a Big Blu before I parted with my own cash for one, from the vids Ive seen of them running they dont look to have any firepower at all for a 155lb hammer, and they need crazy high PSI to operate. Edited May 26, 2009 by John N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 (edited) Another +1 for the IronKiss, both for the service, and quality of product. Edited May 27, 2009 by ApprenticeMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnr Posted May 26, 2009 Share Posted May 26, 2009 Anyang by all reports is excellent. The US distributor is a member here. Finnr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markh Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 +2505 for the Big Blu. Or should I say -$2505. That's how much money you will save. Check out the work the Big Blu guys make everyday using the Big Blu hammers @ Oak Hill Iron. If you guys (those of you who, for some reason, like to bash Big Blu) can explain to me how such nice stuff gets produced on these "inferior" hammers, I'm all ears. The ironkiss is a really nice hammer but almost everyone is a one-of-kind hammer that could one day need a replacement part. So if you want a reliable hammer that will get the job done at a reasonable price, go with the company that sells 150-200 hammers a year instead of the guy that makes and sells maybe one per month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Leppo Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 All of the air valves and other pneumatic parts on Professor Larson's Iron Kiss are Off -the-Shelf Norgren Pneumatic commercial parts, easily ordered on-line. These are the most delicate links in this chain. Not knocking Big Blue, but the quality of Oak Hill Iron is more likely due to artist skill and experience than tooling. If I bought either an Iron Kiss or a Big Blu, I would not suddenly be able to reproduce this level of work when I got home and turned on the air:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 (edited) So if you want a reliable hammer that will get the job done at a reasonable price, go with the company that sells 150-200 hammers a year instead of the guy that makes and sells maybe one per month. Mark, I'm not knocking the blu, but this argument is seriously flawed, quality is always over quantity. I retracted my previous statement because I have not worked on a blu, but have personally worked on an IronKiss, and a Say Mak. Both I have to say were about equal in performance, but the Iron Kiss had more control due to design of the utility hammers not needing to cycle. I have not used a blu, but from my experience I would HIGHLY recommend the IronKiss, having used and met John himself and talked with him about his hammer. Edited May 27, 2009 by ApprenticeMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markh Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 (edited) Mark, I'm not knocking the blu, but this argument is seriously flawed, quality is always over quantity. I retracted my previous statement because I have not worked on a blu, but have personally worked on an IronKiss, and a Say Mak. If you've never worked on a Big Blu then how do you know the large quantity of sales is not due to the hammer being a high quality product? If you've never worked on a big blu, WHY ARE YOU MAKING A COMMENT ABOUT THEIR HAMMER!? What you said was knocking the Big Blu. Now that I know you've never used one I think you extremely rude and irresponsible. It seems to me you wanted to get an argument started. This thread was not started to compare the Ironkiss with the Big Blu. Someone wanted suggestions on what utility hammer to buy. Everyone posted with their suggestions until the Big Blu haters, including you, decided to start with insults. I don't understand what's going on around here with the Big Blu haters, but I would appreciate an explanation. Just this morning their was a thread focusing on their hand hammers and now it's gone! What gives? Edited May 27, 2009 by markh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Did you not notice I retracted my statement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markh Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Not knocking Big Blue, but the quality of Oak Hill Iron is more likely due to artist skill and experience than tooling. If I bought either an Iron Kiss or a Big Blu, I would not suddenly be able to reproduce this level of work when I got home and turned on the air:) That's not what I was trying to say at all. The point I was trying to make is; If the Big Blu is good enough for them then it should be good enough for anyone. As I said earlier, the Ironkiss is a nice utility hammer but costs $2500 more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markh Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Did you not notice I retracted my statement? After leaving it up all day defaming a company that's never done anything to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 After leaving it up all day defaming a company that's never done anything to you. Would you prefer I left it up? I said a IronKiss would outwork a blu based on having worked on an IronKiss and having seen work done on a blu, I did not defame them. No need for caps-yelling, just an honest discussion. Out of curiosity, have you worked on both a blu and an IronKiss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markh Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 No need for caps-yelling, just an honest discussion. Out of curiosity, have you worked on both a blu and an IronKiss? Just an honest discussion? You made negative comments about a power hammer you've never used. If you like the Ironkiss, then explain why you like the Ironkiss. Don't explain how it will "outwork the marketing ER pants off of a Big Blu." Especially since you've never personally used one. Then, maybe, it will be an honest discussion. And yes, to satisfy your curiosity, I have used both hammers. That is why I am qualified to say that an Ironkiss is a good hammer. Besides, I never said anything negative about the Ironkiss' performance. Once again, the Ironkiss is good power hammer, but for the price you could get a Big Blu and pay for most, if not all, of the air compressor. I have a lot of respect for all the good work Mr. Larson puts into his hammers. The man that started this thread was seeking suggestions for his first utility hammer. My suggestion was based the price, quality, and customer service associated with Big Blu. Mr. Larson, if you're reading this, please don't think I have anything against you or your fine product. I'm just starting to notice a trend around here of people salivating a chance to insult anything that has to do with Big Blu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 I made the comments based off of what I have seen. But you are right and I apologize for my ill thought out comment, I do not seek to start a XXXXstorm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 I know you said you had plenty of air, but I would make sure you have enough to run what ever hammer you buy. I have been ask to demo on a few utility hammers and they eat air. I would talk to owners of each kind you are looking at and see how much air they use. It was very frusting to have to stop and wait on the air to build up. I have friends who got hammers only to find out they don't have a heavy enough electical service to run the compressor they need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Peacock has a few good points. You can get by with a 5hp compressor but you'll but only able to work one iron in the fire. Optimal is a 7.5 hp or better. A 7.5 hp motor makes a serious draw on startup. And I could be pointing out these things and you have a full blown shop with 120 gal of 10hp compressor... We are just making sure you are informed about all the in's and outs . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 (edited) Ok, I would just like some help in understanding how Markh is not slamming IronKiss in this statement. The ironkiss is a really nice hammer but almost everyone is a one-of-kind hammer that could one day need a replacement part. So if you want a reliable hammer that will get the job done at a reasonable price, go with the company that sells 150-200 hammers a year instead of the guy that makes and sells maybe one per month. Edited May 28, 2009 by ChrisB On second thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Leppo Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 In his defense, MarkH's statement is exactly true: Iron Kiss hammers are hand made, one at a time, more or less. John Larson blogs extensively on two other forums, discussing his day-to day activities not only building hammers, but fab-shop welding, demo-ing traditional hand smithing on the weekends, cleaning out his rain gutters, etc., on two other forums. A hammer he sold yesterday is different than a hammer he sold 1-1/2 years ago - there are continuously improvements, especially in the air control system. I don't have any info on Big Blu's sales #'s I don't use either model. And I don't hate Big Blu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweany Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 sheesh MArkh chill out. brush the chip off your shoulder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankA Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 I know you said you had plenty of air, but I would make sure you have enough to run what ever hammer you buy. I have been ask to demo on a few utility hammers and they eat air. I would talk to owners of each kind you are looking at and see how much air they use. It was very frusting to have to stop and wait on the air to build up. I have friends who got hammers only to find out they don't have a heavy enough electical service to run the compressor they need. 7.5/80 Ingersoll and it is running. You think that is enough for a 125# hammer with just one person using it at a time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesrjohnson Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 Purchasing a power hammer can be a big decision and you are wise by asking lot's of questions and getting as many facts and opinions as possible. To me there are several factors that should be considered. Make sure the hammer you are getting will do the work that you need done. Will it handle the maximum stock that you plan on working. Be careful because most hammers are measured by the tup weight (165 pounds as an example). The hitting power is not the same on all hammers. Some hammers hit with falling weight, some have pressure behind the ram/tup and hit harder. Controllability is a big factor to consider. To me it is sometimes more important than hitting power. I sometimes use power hammers to texture thin copper. Controllability is everything. Another factor is the long term maintenance and reliability of the hammer. Make sure that there are people who stand behind the hammer with support if ever needed. My advise, try to find the hammers and run them. Make sure they are exactly what you need, talk to lot's of blacksmiths, get your own facts. Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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