kevin (the professor) Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Hello Everyone, I have a simple but important question for me: Where can I get some really thing, flat, 1095 (or 1080 or 1070) and really thin, flat 15n20 (or L6)? I have learned to forge weld pretty reliably (that took a month of serious practice). Now, I want to get more seriously into pattern-welding. This has been my goal all along. However, I am working by hand, with no power tools, and I need THIN stock to begin so I can get a decent number of layers without getting too thick to work by hand. So, any sources that will deliver or any that I can drive to near New Haven or Hartford CT. Thank you for your information. Kevin ps - I will name my next blade after you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Martin Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Go to knifeandgun.com Then go to forge welding. Get some 15n20 and 1095. Do fifteen layers to begin with, 1" wide x 2" long. Forge, draw out twice the length. Cut, stack, weld. Cut stack, weld. Pretty easy to do by hand. It's what i've been doing, and I've had great success. It took me four hours to do that and forge a knife from the twisted billet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnptc Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 McMaster-Carr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 John I don't see any L-6 or 15n20 at that link, only SS and 1095, where is it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Try Admiral Steel they have what you need.Admiral Steel - Knife & Sword Blade Steels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin (the professor) Posted May 10, 2009 Author Share Posted May 10, 2009 steve, go to knifeandgun.com click on forge welding there is 15n20 in bars .049x1 inch, 3rd item down list. I already have a thin sheet of 15n20, 1/16". But, I just ordered 10lb of the 1095 ribbon, 1/20". So, now I have a good source. The best I had before for 1095 was 1/8" from Admiral. Good link, Kevin ps - the funny thing is I buy from knifeandgun all the time, they just have this steel in a different place from their "bar stock" link. So, I never found it before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 (edited) Just trying to find out if Johnptc gave the wrong link, we try to keep correct information on I Forge Iron. I have dealt with McMaster they have an outlet close by and i never saw the nickel alloyed steel there. Just trying to check. Edited May 10, 2009 by steve sells typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 I use the thin metals from K and G I stack 28 layers for the first weld about ten inches long. Draw to three times its length and grind and restack...you will have close to 100 layers less a few from scale and grinding loss that will make a nice twist pattern. Redraw and double for a ladder pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrann Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Call LOgan steel in meriden, they also have carbon and stainless cutoffs for not much money per pound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnptc Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Just trying to find out if Johnptc gave the wrong link, we try to keep correct information on I Forge Iron. I have dealt with McMaster they have an outlet close by and i never saw the nickel alloyed steel there. Just trying to check. sorry for getting your hopes up on the 15n20 texas knife supplies has 15n20 but its not yet on the website mcmaster has thin pure nickel and lot of hi carbon steel in thin sections. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
me miller Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Check out Ray Kirks site for 15n20. He has some 4 and 6 inch wide that he sheers to width for you or you can buy larger pieces. he found some unworked 15n20 that hadn't been made into saw blades yet. Nice stuff. check him out at Raker Knives & Steel Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin (the professor) Posted May 10, 2009 Author Share Posted May 10, 2009 I am very new to this, so I want some advice, please. I can imagine what the visual effect is when one combines pure nickel with 1095. However, what does it do to the properties of the blade. For example, if I weld together 2 parts 1095 and 1 part nickel, what will I have in terms of physical properties. Espcially wear resistence, hardness, edge retention...? Is there an ideal way or amount to mix nickel in (not as alloy like l6 or 15n20, but when adding pure nickel to a billet)? Thanks for your help. It is great that people with your overall level of expertise will stop to help someone with mine. Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 Whatever you weld together for a billet will create the total carbon content. If you have 1.0 carbon content and add 50% nickel you then have about .5% carbon content when welded. Not exactly correct but it gives you an idea. And nickel has no properties to add to a knife that makes it a better knife. Like wear resistance edge holding ability etc. What nickel does is provide a startling contrast to high carbon steels that contain no nickel. How about carbon steel containing nickel? 15N20 is 1075 carbon steel with 2% nickel. If you make a billet of half 15N20 and half 1095 your final billet will be at about the mid point of the combined carbon contents of both steels. Or about 1985. Then you have the high contrast nickel in the mix and 1095 will etch dark. Your carbon content is usable for a knife and if you want to change the percentages of carbon just adjust the layers before you weld up. A lot of the work affecting what a knife will be or what it will look like is done before you order steel. Steve Sells wrote about one of the knife chats and posted in the forum about selecting steels and how that affects a finished knife. Look it up if you want to take this a bit farther. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 (edited) Hi Kevin, Rich.... Im not 100% sure on this, but kinda think i might be right, perhaps requires a bit more research....?? The carbon will migrate in a billet after a few folds, equalising (averaging) the carbon content throughout the billet. Pure nickle is, well, pure nickle. It hasnt got any carbon, and wont get any. The nickle does not migrate in a forge weld, so your 15n20 layers will still be 2% nickle no matter how much work you do to it. Nickle is a compartivly 'large' element on a molecular level which is why theres no migration to the other steels you use ( logically this makes sense otherwise instead of bright layers, and dark layers it would all average out to leave it kinda grey! ) Ive never welded with pure nickle sheet (its very spendy, and very hard to get hold of in the UK ), but as I understand it the pure nickle sheet makes up a very small % of the billet weight when used, like 1% ish. Nickle does not harden, doesnt hold an edge etc so keep it away from the cutting edge of a patternwelded blade (unless your clever, and use it to make micro-serations etc!) (if im wrong on any of the above someone please, please point it out!, its from memory, and that aint all ways a good thing! (edit, I also think that a layer of pure nickle will act as a 'barrier' for carbon migration) Edited May 11, 2009 by John N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin (the professor) Posted May 11, 2009 Author Share Posted May 11, 2009 OK, I think I get it. If you use pure Ni, the idea is to add a relatively small perecentage by mass. Just to give "highlights." I am going to stay with 1095 and 15n20 because I am a firm believer in functional art and because I am economically limited. Thanks for the valuable information. This will help me to pattern weld and still get good results with my minimal equipment. Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnptc Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 why not make a san mai construction.........insert a tool steel or hi carbon core on the last fold and make the pattern welded sides beautiful and to support the core ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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