Frosty Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 (edited) Okay, so here's what's been going on since I brought my new acquisition home. I got the overhead door tweaked, wound and tuned well enough to open and close easily. It still needs a little tuning to hang perfectly straight but it's good enough for now. It was a LOT of running up and down the ladder and my legs would end up shaking after a while. While I was letting my legs recover from the ladder I built a base for the LG. It's 4" x 12"s side by side, bolted together with 4 lengths of 1/2" allthread and glued with liquid nails. There's a piece of 7/16" rubber belting on that and it bolted to the hammer with 4 ea. 5/8" x 6" gr8 bolts. (Typical Alaskan hardware store, it either has gr2 or gr8 bolts.) I got a little fancy with the bolts and base. I morticed two pieces of 1/4" x 4" x 23" of strap stock across the anchor bolt positions. Then I made wells to hold the bolt heads without touching the floor and secured the plates with counter sunk wood screws. (concrete anchors actually, alaskan hardware store strikes again.) Pic. #1 shows the base bolted to the hammer to set the bolt head wells to match the hammer's bolt holes. Well's are tack welded with the mig in the pic. Once the wells were matched in and tacked I pulled the base back off, stick welded the wells solid with 7018 and ground everything flush and smooth for the floor's sake. I know it's undoubtadly overdone but I don't have to worry about the hammer beating the anchors out or splitting the beams. I might've done done it differently if I could get enough maple or oak for less than the hammer cost. I got the shop cleaned, rearranged and cleared out enough to back my trailer in. Yesterday a buddy and I off loaded and stood my hammer where it goes. I did the fine positioning with a come along using the gozintas as anchors. We went slow and it went smooth as warm butter. Yesterday I sprayed a couple cans of Gumout on it and spent time with a scraper and brush trying to clean the grease off. . . HAH! The grease or whatever it's turned into is tougher than tire rubber! Today I took Formula 409 to it, mixed 2:1 with water, and the crud was running off it like water. I learned that one 30 years ago cleaning up after an asphalt fire in the soils lab. I was going to paint it but am realizing that even a pressure washer wouldn't get it clean enough without taking it apart and I'd rather use it than take it apart for cosmetics. Maybe some day it'll need rebuilding and I'll paint it then. So, I need to pick up a few lag screws to secure it to the anchor I made for it and some proper wiring. For the reasonable future I'll be powering it off my welder but that's okay it has plenty of capacity. What I don't like is where the switch is, on TOP of the motor. I'd have to reach over the link arms to switch it off if something goes wrong! The last two pics are of it sitting in position before I took the 409 to it. The 4" x 12" base and 7/16" belt raised it to perfect working height for me, I'll be making a treadle extension so I won't have to work with my foot off the floor but that's a simple thing. Easier than getting the base right, that's for sure! I figure tomorrow or the next day I'll be thumping away with it. Frosty Edited May 7, 2009 by Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 After you make an extension to the foot control lever, make a block to hold the lever in the air when the machine is idle. No need to stumble or trip and set the machine in gear when you are not ready. I would suggest safety guards to keep any broken parts from flying into your face, and a quick kill switch somewhere close to the front of the hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry W. Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Frosty, Looks like exciting times in your shop. I acquired a 50# Moloch but, it will still be many months before I have time to get it up and running. Good Luck, Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 You, my friend, are one sick puppy....just look at how clean that shop is! Shameful to any fine,respectable blacksmith... Hey good going on the hammer. Let me know when you start hammering with it...never mind, I'll probably hear the SHOUT for JOY from hear! Proud for ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dablacksmith Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 nice base and i agree with glen a guard in the front minimum so if and when the spring breaks they arnt pickin pieces of it our of your head... (heard of a guy that had that happen didnt kill him but knocked him out cold for a bit) other than that looks good .. once you get used to it a power hammer will be a good tool and used a lot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 7, 2009 Author Share Posted May 7, 2009 The spring guard is a given, I just forgot to mention it, not that the reminder is out of line. The main reason I want the switch off the TOP of the MOTOR is so I can get to it at a distance from the hammer for safety's sake. Better wiring too of course but being able to shut a machine down from a safe distance is really important. A safety block out on the treadle is really good idea. Consider it adopted. Clean? It's BARREN, virtually STERILE! I'm shuddering just at the thought of MY shop with a clear swept floor! I HAD to make room for the hammer, HAD TO I say! You should see the other side of the shop, can't get around unless you can high step at least 2'. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGropp Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 The best guard for the spring on a LG is a piece of 1/8'' plate cut ,bent and shaped to cover it completely from the front. Hold it on with the cross head bolt. Work out the right shape with a piece of stiff paper or light sheet metal. It takes a bit of fitting get it right so the guard gives full protection to the operator without interfering with the action of the hammer. On the subject of clean shops, why is it that people seem to think it's fine to work in a junk yard ? If you spend your day moving around material that's hot, heavy and sharp you do not want any extra stuff in the way. Hot cut offs, sparks or slag that fall into a pile of junk are a definite fire hazard. If you can't find that tool, material or part without a big time consuming search through a mess, you might as well not have it. If you have potential clients visit your shop, the fact that is picked up and organized gives them a measure of confidence that you just might be the one for that big commission for their new high end home. Just my two cents worth, different people have their own methods of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Dude, just a comment on how the shop looked. Yes, I am an advocate for a clean shop. Safety is the main reason, time is the other. Mine is not hospital clean/organized but I do know where things are. Didn't mean to stir up a wasp nest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 7, 2009 Author Share Posted May 7, 2009 It's the norm to rib each other about a clean shop or whatever. Same thing for a clean desk; how many jokes do you know on the subject? "A clean desk is a sign of a sick mind." Etc. Yes, keeping the shop in order and reasonably clean is indeed simple good shop practice. So is ribbing your friends. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divermike Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Well I was impressed with the wood base, and yes, it looks like the shop has never seen a craftsman do anything in it, so until I see pics of hot metal under that new LG, I'm gonna be mighty skeptical. In any event, when you said the switch location, I got chills, once while working in a printing press shop, I saw a pretty bad accident when a guy was reaching over a piece of machinery in motion, ugh!! Congrats on the final placement, had mine rockin and rollin today making more flowers for the missus. She made a little garden spot and has a bunch of my funky yard art displayed there, and she wants it finished by tomorrow for our ocho de mayo party!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 7, 2009 Author Share Posted May 7, 2009 It's my purpose in life to keep people guessing you know. I grew up in Father's metal spinning shop and not being able to shut something down without getting in the line of fire gives me the willies. I saw a few pretty grisly accidents in his shop, the worst being when Johnny took most of his left hand off in the punch press. A part stuck and he reflexively tried to pop it loose while his right foot was still reflexively tripping the press. It turned his left hand from the knuckle at the base of the web of his thumb almost perfectly straight across into a finely divided red mist. An off switch you can hit as you're on your way out is really important. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNeilson Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 The best guard for the spring on a LG is a piece of 1/8'' plate cut ,bent and shaped to cover it completely from the front. Hold it on with the cross head bolt. Work out the right shape with a piece of stiff paper or light sheet metal. It takes a bit of fitting get it right so the guard gives full protection to the operator without interfering with the action of the hammer. Hi Frosty,I agree with this statement. The spring flying out or breaking is the first concern it seems from newer LG owners. I know a man that has over 20 PH`s in his shop, majority are mechanical, most being LG`s. I asked him this question and his reply....In the factorys and shops in the past, these hammers were used at relatively rapid BPM`s as opposed to artistic work (usually in the 200 bpm or so). They also ran them 24-7 as one man would step away and another took his place. This type of use would overheat the spring from plain use and they did break on occasion. quite often flying out and hitting the top of the operators head. A spring rarely breaks with a nice flush/square fracture, so besides getting walloped with a big chunk of metal a good cut or more was usually the case. He had guards as described in place on ALL the mechanicals with the exception of a Bradley (rubber springs) . The idea is to deflect the potential breaking spring sideways or out the rear rather that have them come straight out and bean the operator. I have also seen a light cable looped thru the spring to hold on to the bits should the same happen. A small hammers spring may hurt you, but a bigger one may kill.....I will post a pic of my guard for you.....Kerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Nice looking base and I bet you are hot to trot or I guess I should say bang some iron. My mom used to have a plaque in the kitchen that read "My kitchen is clean enough to be healthy and messy enough to be happy", so I guess that any man that can say the same about his shop or desk is going to be OK, clean enough to safe and just messy enough to happy not dangerous. I used to go over to a friends house when I was younger and his mom had the house so clean you had to hold on to your glass of soda because if you sat it down with out finishing it all at once she would dump it, wash it and put it away. Not a happy house. I guess I ought to rebuild my little old 25# LG or sell it. The clutch drags a bit but I sure did a fair amount of work with it. No shop to put it in now, just sitting on the porch.:( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry W. Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Frosty, I like the base that you have on your hammer. As mentioned previously, I have a 50# Moloch that I am working on. I want to put it into my new shop. I am converting the barn to my blacksmith shop which is a 30X50' metal building with a dirt floor. My plan was to did it out and pour a base of cement to the Little Giant specification. Are you going to use yours on a dirt floor or cement? What type of preparation would you need if you didn't pour a cement base? I like the thought that it would not be located in one spot so permanently. I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on this. Thanks, Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 8, 2009 Author Share Posted May 8, 2009 There is a section in the Powerhammer Book about spring failures and their typical causes, usually mis-tensioning but sometimes working too thick material without changing the top die setting. Anyway, I'll be putting a guard on it soonest. The problem with a cable arrestor is the springs often break in small pieces and the cable can't stop those. I thought about slipping a piece of heavy firehose over the outside but I'd rather not take it apart for an expreiment that may not save me lumps anyway. I wish I were neater and better organized in my shop but I do manage to keep it from being too bad. I like the "happy shop" idea and think it'll make a good shop sign. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 8, 2009 Author Share Posted May 8, 2009 Frosty, I like the base that you have on your hammer. As mentioned previously, I have a 50# Moloch that I am working on. I want to put it into my new shop. I am converting the barn to my blacksmith shop which is a 30X50' metal building with a dirt floor. My plan was to did it out and pour a base of cement to the Little Giant specification. Are you going to use yours on a dirt floor or cement? What type of preparation would you need if you didn't pour a cement base? I like the thought that it would not be located in one spot so permanently. I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on this. Thanks, JerryThanks Jerry I was kind of winging it but I put a lot of thought into it first. If I'd known what kind of hammer and where I was going to put it I would've poured an isolated foundation for it. Unfortunately I didn't know what I'd get till this one came available a week ago. What I did when I designed and poured the floor was make the area where a powerhammer would go 8" thick and doubled the rebar. I also added a couple % of cement to the gravel I used under the floor and over compacted it, using a backhoe bucket as a compactor. The pic looks like it's setting on dirt but that's dirty sawdust I put there to catch oil, grease and degreaser I'm using to clean it up. I'm not bolting my hammer to the floor. When I designed the floor I planned and installed 2" sq. receiver tubes flush with the surface (gozintas) on a 4' grid and they're welded to the rebar where they cross so these puppies are SOLID. I'm anchorinig the hammer by bolting a flange to the base that is socketed into one of the receivers. Most folk think the foundations as specified by Little Giant are overkill but for the price of concrete and rebar it's exactly what I'd build. Seriously, a yard delivered is how much? $110-120 in AK I think. A 2' x 2' x 40" block of reinforced concrete is going to cost maybe $50 bucks plus mixer rental unless you know someone you can borrow one from. Another $20-30 in rebar and $20 for anchors. A couple hundred bucks total if you hire someone to help. Cheap if you ask me. One word of advice I discovered making the base for my hammer. The bolt holes are NOT where the drawing says they are. Cut a piece of plywood large enough to bridge the concrete form, clamp it to the hammer base and carefully mark, drill and double check the bolt holes. This is your template for setting the anchor bolts. When you're ready to pour concrete place the anchor bolts in the holes then wrap the first 2" or so of the anchor down from the surface of the concrete with paper or something else you can unwrap easily. This is to leave a little space around the anchor bolts to make aligning them with the hammer base easier. It also helps damp vibration into the floor. Make sure the template has openings so you can get concrete evenly distributed under it. Air will prevent concrete from flowing under all of the template board unless it can escape. I discovered this pouring the slab for my shop. All you need is enough template there to solidly support the anchor bolts. Hole saw cutouts work real well but even 1" holes work to relieve air pressure. Once the concrete has set enough you'll remove the templates to finish it and it's all good from there on out. Keep the concrete wet as it cures, 7 days is best for full strength and do NOT bolt the hammer down till it's had it's cure time. This is important. You'll need a rubber pad under the hammer, belting is better than mat because of the belting. That's all I can think of right now. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry W. Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Frosty, Thanks for the information. It will be months before I am up and running. I just want to do it properly when I do get time. Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNeilson Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Hi Frosty, heres are a couple pics of the guard I built based on the previous discussions. If you look at the crosshead pins (new ones I made), you can see where I drilled and tapped holes (1/4 x20)to mount the guard. Also the custom knuckles and T-rods to adjust tension from both sides. This was the biggest improvement other than the brake on my machine. The arms are not guarded tho, so no-one (myself too)is allowed to stand in line with them as the machine is operating. No ones mentioned an arm or pin breaking yet, this causes the arms to flail. I forgot to say nice job on the wood base before, mine just sits on a rubber pad (belting). Ive always wondered how much more efficient the mass of the suggested foundation would add to the hammer if any at all. Most Ive tried (and thats not very many) were just sitting on the floor......Kerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 9, 2009 Author Share Posted May 9, 2009 My pleasure Jerry. Just keep in mind I've never done this before and can't say from experience how this foundation will work. The stuff about concrete is pretty much by the book. . . A book anyway. Thanks Kerry, that's a nice streamlined guard, I like it. I like being able to see movable links in a machine I'm operating if possible and that's what bothersme about most of the guards I've seen. I was figuring on using a double layer of expanded metal like I did for the guard on the cylinder breaker at the lab. It'll be a while before I have my lathe set up to turn anything, so for now I'll mount the more "traditional" guard. It'll get one like yours before too long though. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike-hr Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Great base Frosty. You guys are going to have a lot of good times together. I sort of hate to bring this up, but, we all know you're going to eventually have to hot slit a hole in the siding to get that last little bit of that 12 foot long forged cap rail to fit under the hammer.. the upside is, the wee window makes for a great trap door to get rid of old coffee, both processed and un-processed. Stay safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 9, 2009 Author Share Posted May 9, 2009 You have a good point Mike. Fortunately if that comes up I can simply pull the gozinto anchor out of the gozinta, pivot the hammer 90* and anchor it back down. Of course the downside to that option is I'll have to walk out the door to shake the old coffee. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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