Power Hammers

[Ellen]

I am a firm believer in that most folks with a degree of metalworking talent can make real nice power hammers. Only thing I would like to see in any discussion of these shop built hammers are that the safety issues are well covered. Ptree's modified "Rusty" on Anvilfire's Power Hammer page is the best example I have seen of safety in action. His homemade hammer would pass an OSHA inspection!

I was watching the Dave Manzer DVD over the weekend (#2 on power hammer tooling), and he pointing out his missing "trigger finger" and showed the glove he was wearing at the time, now stapled to the wall. Must have been incredibly painful, bloody and scary, and he was darned lucky not to lose the whole hand.

There aren't enough of us to lose one to a dreadful accident, so Thank You in advance!

[frogvalley]

Here is a rant that is sure to stir up trouble.

While safety is a concern for all of us, some of the concerns raised are overkill. OSHA leans toward the extreme side of safety, to the point of being a hinderance and a hazard in some of the safety cages that it requires. OSHA's job is to protect the powerless and unitiated workers of the larger corporations where the dangers are different than a small forge with competent machine operators and few power hammers. I won't put safety cages over any of the parts of my machines.

Many safety systems will bite you worse than the piece that would be flying off and can't protect you from all things anyway. The most dangerous part of the power hammer, in my opinion, is the ram while you are working. SMACK on your fingers is bad. Next would be actually getting caught in the moving parts while the hammer is operating, but if you are working, your hands should be on the workpiece and not the moving parts of the machine anyway. And the instructions say don't where loose clothing, etc.

Ptree's machine has a common design difference or flaw in that the ram can exit through the top of the guides. Thats a major problem if there is any trouble with the spring or the roller guides at the top of the ram. Other designs cannot have this happen. There are several ways to design around that. A keeper at the top of the guides or a die set up that does not allow the ram to go all the way up and out. Take a look at mine at http://www.frogvalleyforge.com or at "superrusty".

Another problem I see is the tendency to make these machine have a small, compact profile, hence the motor being inboard of the center column and near the operator. Remounting the motor outside of the column puts those moving part associated with it away from you. I would have to move 2-3 feet to the left of my normal operating position to get bitten by the pulley. Plus these should be made tall enough that the spring is way up from you, and I am 6'2". Mine tops at 7'6". I would not build a "rusty" type with the spring in my face like the original.

Can something go wrong with my machine? Yes. Is it more dangerous than my 1905 Fairbanks? No. Are both of them good machines and safe enough? Yes and neither one has any significant safety devices only safely designed.

The best safety is a competent, aware operator. No drink, no drugs- but even more important is a check of all operating parts daily before use. AND during the day if you use it all day. You should be oiling or greasing every time you use it. I don't have many grease fittings on my hammers, I much prefer oil holes as it MAKES you look at all the parts when you oil them.

Your mileage may vary.

[irnsrgn]

I agree with Mark about OSHA.

Cages and add on so called safety things can make a machine absolutely DANGEROUS, besides LIMITING VISION to the point of not being able to see what you are doing or what is happening with the machine.

I don't need someone to tell me a machine is dangerous and equip it with all kinds of expensive supposed safety stuff that makes it extremely dangerous and almost impossible to use. With some of the supposedly Safety Cages, FLYING SHRAPNEL from the light duty cage material will do far more damage than the machine if it fails for some reason.

COMMON SENSE tells me all power machinery is dangerous, and to be careful when operating it.

The Most Dangerous thing you can own is an Oxy-Acet set up in the hands of some one who has no instruction in how to use it.

[Ellen]

I have no problem with any adult building or operating any of the older machines, and agree that some OSHA stuff adds to the danger. Some of their requirements on new farm tractors verge on being deadly to the operator.

There is no subsitute for knowledge and common sense. I just think full disclose of known hazards is the proper route to take. Someone reading about home built power hammers or an old Little Giant, etc, without any knowledge of the hazards they can pose is not receiving all of the knowledge they are entitled to. Oxy-acetylene torches are a great example of multiple hazards if operated by a non-knowledgable person.

My Grizzly belt grinder is a potentially deadly tool; operating it is my choice, I am aware it can fling a sharp knife at high velocity for a goodly distance.

Just know what you are getting into is my whole, and only point. Heck. life is dangerous. It is a proven fact. No one has ever gotten out of it alive. Grin!

[sandpile]

Hammers and presses, drills and torches are all dangerous.

The quickest way to get hurt bad in my shop is a buffing machine. When I start to buff out and polish a blade, I like to be by myself or if someone is in my shop. I ask them to refrain from breaking my concentration until I am through with the buffer.

It is the same with several of the machines in our shop. We try to keep our concentration while operating all of the power equiptment.

We have had some scarey things happen with a large hand held grinder/wire wheel.

NONE will get you any quicker than the buffer.

Just some thoughts on biters.

Chuck

[HWooldridge]

I have been stung by set tools under power hammers - or by trying to straighten a piece of cold steel (which is a no-no for me henceforth). I had a 25 LG for several years and put a simple bar cage in front of the spring but never added anything else.

Fortunately, I have not been seriously hurt in my years of doing this but in order of seriousness, the worst ones for me are:

1. Right angle grinder with wire cup wheel is deadly - has gotten me several times. A 9" with a grinding wheel also took a piece out of my wrist down to the bone once. I was beveling the end of a piece of pipe and was flipping the grinder, which spun the wheel right through space then occupied by my arm.
2. Bench grinder with wire wheel - need I say more?
3. 12" PSA sander. The discs sometimes pucker and the high spot will catch you at a bad time. I lost a good piece of flesh to one while sharpening a shear blade not too long ago.

I seldom get burned anymore - must have figured out early that stuff was hot...

[irnsrgn]

Spring Guard on my LG 50

[Mills]

Irnsrgn That is why I admire you Bruce Wilcock so much, Succinctness. That is elegant.

[angela]

I have an old triphammer that belonged to my father when he was a blacksmith during the 50s and 60s. I've been trying to learn more about it, including value. The only thing I know about it is there is one like it in a museum (I've been told it is in the Henry Ford Museum). Has anyone seen one like it before? Does anyone know anything about the McGowan & Finnegan triphammers?
The only other thing I know about it is that it makes a glorious sound when used and I loved watching it work when I was small.
Thanks for any help/info anyone can give to me!
Angela

[mike-hr]

Howdy, I have a Perfect hammer that I run most every day.. Mine is an 80 pound ram, and it says Patent Sept 1907, where yours says patent applied for.. There is a book called 'pounding out the profits' that has a short history on the company, but not much. I think they made a 35 and an 80 pound hammer, I don't know which yours is. The value where I live, on the west coast USA, would be $800 - 3000, It just depends how bad someone wants it.

[clark-kentski]

By the looks of the cobwebs i can tell i would love to spend the day in that shed. Make sure you dont throw anything out as some tools dont look like much but have great value,posting pics here the folks will let you know what you have an an idea of value,good luck!!

[angela]

Thanks for the info and the comments, guys. My father was a blacksmith for quite a few years. He died during 2003 from histoplasmosis that he'd had for more than 30 years. He did a lot of smithing when I was a child, and owned his own shop for a number of years next to the Illinois River. I don't know how much Mom has kept of his tools, etc., but will try to find out and get pics of what she still has. I have the triphammer because I asked for it as a keepsake just because I loved to listen to hte sounds it made when Dad used it. I loved to go to the shop to sit quietly to listen to the stories while Old Harry (Dad) worked. He made a lot of his own tools, etc. He also used to give demonstrations for a things called *Harvesting the River*, etc. I remember that if I was really quiet, I could hear all kinds of stories because the men would forget I was there. One of my favorites was the following Old Harry told fairly often:
When I was a little kid, we lived close to an old woman we called "Wiggy" cause she was pert near bald-headed. Wiggy lived in a little house with two men. One was her husband and one was an extree. After supper every night, the men would sit by the cookstove and play cards while Wiggy washed dishes at the sink in front of the winnder.
Well, one day when I was playin, I found me an old horse skull. I got me a piece a wire and I wired the jaws together on the horse skull so I could make 'em go "CLOMP"! Then I carried it to Wiggy's house and I waited for her to do the dishes. It was gittin dark and when she started to wash the dishes, I raised the horse skull outside a the winnder and I went "CLOMP" with the jaws of the skull. Wiggy said, "Ahhhhhhhhhh!" and fell over in a dead faint. Her fellers got up and ran to the door and started yellin that they was gonna beat my xxx. So I beat feet outta there.
The fellers told my dad what I did and I got my xxx beat. Just goes to show a young feller can't win for nothin.
The shop was a great place. Dad's hired hand was a man who'd been in WW1, was a bit shellshocked, had cauliflower ears from when he was a boxer, and who had to leave a few times throughout the day to go to the tavern for a "skuttle o' suds".
I hope a lot of you have daughters who get to enjoy the shops with you!
Thanks again!
Angela

[Leah]

Angela, thank you for sharing your father's story with us. Have you ever thought about dusting off his tools and using them yourself? It sure is a lot of fun to play in the fire. There are a lot of women blacksmiths doing some beautiful work.

[Dodge]

Wonderful story, Angela. Thank you for sharing. I have 3 daughters. My oldest is a cosmetologist. (Can't get dirt under her nails) My second oldest is a medical assistant. (Can't get dirt under her nails) They both like what comes out of the shop but not whats in it LOL My youngest (22) likes the shop and the sounds, etc. I'll have to keep brow beating her to grab a hammer though :)

[angela]

I haven't had the opportunity to do much smithing types of work/fun. I am looking forward to learning more and doing more next Spring and Summer when my husband and I are working on things (cars, etc.) I sort of was banned from the shop many years ago by my mother after I sat on a freshly welded piece of metal. received a bit of a different shaped cheek from that episode. LOL Then I was run over by a car and that put a halt to a few things for a while. Then Dad was afraid welding would ruin my eyes and refused to allow me to learn to weld. (Helmets weren't as good back then as now.) Now that I am a grandma (almost 50 years old) and many years later (after two bad marriages.. one of which ended with a psychopathic exhusband in prison, a tornado that destroyed my last home, various other problems, etc) I am married (for the third time) to a guy who has no qualms about allowing me to do things I love to do (like shooting coons, etc.) I am really loooking forward to learning how to use the triphammer, etc. In the meantime, I've been doing a lot of artwork over the years... the main reason Old Harry was very cautious about my eyes being *ruined*. I don't have any of my best paintings on the computer to attach to this, but found one painting from last year when the pelicans were in the area. It's been an intersting life and is going to be more so. So many things to learn to do and so much to try!
Angela

[Glenn]

Welcome to the site. Between now and spring you have time to catch up on your reading. May I suggest IForgeIron.com from the 400+ Blueprints, to the Forum and Forum archives, to the 2000+ images in the Gallery. There is a thread about Blacksmithing books on the internet and enough links to other places that when combined, the reading should get you into spring or a little after.

This way when you build your first fire, you will have some idea as to what you want to do with the hot metal.

The IForgeIron Forum Chat is a great place to ask question as it is "live" and the answer can come from anyone or anywhere in the world.

Seek out local blacksmith organizations and groups. These folks will jump start your education as nothing else can. They can show you how to use the tools you have to get you smithy up and running. Provide photos and the folks here can explain things to you as well.

And there is no reason you have to wait till spring to start. Many blacksmiths forge during cold weather, such as Karl in Sweden, and several blacksmiths in Canada.