Fe-Wood Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 I've been trying to decide which gas saver to get. I have found two different ones with about a $100.00 differance in price. I'm not production but when I use it, I'll use it for a while. See links and please give me your feed back! Thankshttp://rmgsupply.com/products/GENTEC_GAS_SAVER_OXY_ACETYLENE-2216-343.htmlhttp://www.smithequipment.com/products/pdfpages2008/page68.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horseshoe182 Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 I,ve never seen this stuff in Oz. My understanding of this product is that it starts the gas automaticly and has a polit light. If your not into high production, honestly , whats the point for a back yard guy. How hard is it to light a torch? and how long does it take, 5, 10 seconds, how much gas will you save with this device? Are you lighting up dozens of times pre/hour. IME it,s a waste of money, and just something else to maintain. Keep it simple my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted March 21, 2009 Author Share Posted March 21, 2009 I know what you mean about the K.I.S.S thing. When I do use my tourch, I'm using it for bending and brazing but mostly bending. Sometimes for several hours for production and the start/stop, relight just takes to long and wastes lots of fuel, Last time I had my tank filled was $80.00+ for a #4. My aplication is a little more than backyard as I use the torch rig once or twice a week. But thanks for your input Hourseshoe182! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Either one will pay for itself soon enough. Have you looked on Craigs list or eBay? I have an Allstates propane oxy torch with a thumb valve on/off. I hook a battery charger to the table and torch handle when the job allows of course. Then to light I just slide the torch on the table top and hit the thumb valve. Works a treat and was HUNDREDS cheaper than the factory unit that does the exact same thing. Anyway a gas saver is a huge improvement. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 yeah, Frosty I have looked on ebay, but not craigslist Good idea! Doing that now... Explain the charger arch start system to me, sounds interesting... ah scary. At some point, I will do a propane rig. Gotta make some money first. I saw a really nice welding cart on another forum. He had a pilot light and gas flux setup, very nicely made and layed out... I'd have the pilot light on its own supply and propane and acetylene with a shared Oxy Harris make a torch handle that has a thumb controlled idle/pilot light, but I'm all set with an old Victor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 This is the set I have. Magnum System Sure a $600 pricetag for the basic rig. (I don't see the point for buying the "special" shape propane tank other than it'd fit a standard welding cart) However, when they say it costs less than 2% as much too operate than oxy acet, they are not exaggerating one bit. The #0 cutting tip will cut 20ga without warping and crank the oxy psi up and it'll pierce up to 5". Doesn't harden steel by injecting C into it so you can indeed chase a hole with a HS drill bit after it cools, use HS cutters in a lathe, etc. It'll do everything oxy acet does far faster and more efficiently except one, they don't weld worth spit. Anyway to your question. The battery charger and I'm talking about a 3-5a trickle charger just makes a spark on the welding table when you touch the torch to it. Nothing special nor particularly scary except for one small aspect. A pre-adjusted torch tends to POP like a gun when you light it. Oxy prop is worse for this than oxy acet. A gas saver already has a pilot flame so there isn't much point in using a battery charger spark lighter. Still, it's pretty cool for surprising other folk hanging out in your shop. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 Veery intorestink! More cash...All I need is more cash! It would be nice not to have to grind slag before milling. Tips and tricks go under the hat- Thanks frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtforge Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I use the Smith style. It's what we used in the factory where I was in maintenance. We had a LOT of brazing stations for making refrigeration valves, couplers and such. When we would retire a station we would strip the valves and be able to take some home. I set mine up on a 2" x 2" square tube welded to an old tire rim (scrap I had). I made a short hose set for after the gas saver valve and run a hose set from my propane manifold and oxygen tank to the gas saver valve. I haven't used acet. for a lot of years. Just changed out the tip on my Harris cutting torch and use grade T hoses. It's not just to save on the gas (which it does) but is a great place to hang the torch to free up my hands to hammer, bend or whatever without worrying about a flame. I had seen set ups in other factories using Asco valves rated for the fuel gas and oxygen with a spark plug linked to a micro switch. When you lift the torch it started the gas and you laid it on a metal plate attached to the switch to start the spark. The main assembly lines used them for production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I have a smith gas saver. I weld with gas a lot. Regulators get set and torch gets set. torch hangs up to go out. Not only gas saved but time. YMMV. I buy equipment that can be serviced. YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 Ten Hammers- you bring up a good point, servicability. The other one isn't servicable? Funny, no one has said anything about the other type... Wonder if they are no good or no one uses it. Hmmm. Only reason I continue to press the question is I saw a realy nice stand made with the cheeper version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J W Bennett Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I have a smith also, i did put a guard above the pilot to keep from accidently getting into it. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGropp Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I have 3 oxy/fuel torch setups all with Smith gas savers. Well worth the money if not for the gas saved but for the time [=$] saved and efficiency. I use them a lot with big cutting tips for spot heating while heading tenons or making precise bends. They won't handle the high pressure oxygen needed for big propane rosebuds but the rosebuds seem to work fine at less than the recommended O2 pressure [40 psi, I think ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 A proper oxy propane torch has a thumb valve so no gas saver is necessary. Converted torches are a whole different thing though. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 A proper oxy propane torch has a thumb valve so no gas saver is necessary. Converted torches are a whole different thing though. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abenakis Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Hi About Gentec, I have seen this on sculpture.net forum: "I have and use a gentec gas saver and like that" and "Gentech is a Euro brand that has been around for a while and the quality is good. It isn't a Harbor Fright brand as thought by some." Genstar Technologies also make 2 torches equiped with a thumb valve AND a pilot flame: 342T-F Series Oxy-Fuel Gas Saver Torch 342T-Y Series Oxy-Acetylene Gas Saver Torch I haven't seen the price, though Abenakis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abenakis Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Hi again Genstar technologies is listed as an American company based in Chino, CA. There is no european address on their site as suggested by the other guy on the sculpture.net forum. Should be easier to get their products. Abenakis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted March 25, 2009 Author Share Posted March 25, 2009 Well, My quest is over, yea!!! Thank you all for the input:) I went to an auction today and for the price of one new smith fuel saver, I got two, but wait, theres more...I also got a fairly new set of Victor regulators, hoses, tank stabilizer, two tourch handles with tips, all mounted to a nice butcher block bench...I am a happy camper:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Good morning all It sounds like you got a very good deal. Now that we have or gas saver valve does anybody have a picture and description of their station? I understand that some folks have rigged stations with a foot operated mechanism to operate the gas saver valve with the torch held in a stationary holder. I can't come to grips with a design that will incorporate the torch, pilot light, stationary holder and hand use of the torch. Thinking of using the torch by hand I would like to have the shut off hook relative high (shoulder level) with the pilot light in the same region. Pick up the torch, run the tip by the pilot light, and Bob’s your uncle. However, if one is using a stationary torch and presenting the material to the torch I would like the torch relatively low (waist level) in the stationary position, also it would seem that the pilot light in this case would be in the road. Anyhow explaining this is cumbersome enough, hopefully someone will sort me out. Tks grant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Nice score! Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abenakis Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 "if one is using a stationary torch and presenting the material to the torch I would like the torch relatively low (waist level) in the stationary position, also it would seem that the pilot light in this case would be in the road. Anyhow explaining this is cumbersome enough, hopefully someone will sort me out. " I found that Harris and Genstar Technologies are manufacturing on/off valve on the handle, same type as you would find on a cutting attachment but with a pilot flame at the tip. If you can have a sort of bar that would push the on/off valve and that would be connected to a pedal, one could have a flexible set-up. I have attached a little support on my bottle stand so that the handle points to the back of the support, at waist height and, when I need to use the torch in my hand, I simply take it out. I am planning to buy handle with on/off valve, probably from Harris, for a propane set-up capable of over 1,000,000 BTU's! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 This stand is just a piece of pipe with a plate base. Amazing how clean the table was 5 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abenakis Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 "I have an Allstates propane oxy torch with a thumb valve on/off" Frosty, what's the tip size you use for heating your work? I wonder how much heat one can actually use before simply spittting a lot of burned gas in the atmosphere. That info could make me change my mind on my propane set-up. Thanks Abenakis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted March 26, 2009 Author Share Posted March 26, 2009 Here are some pictures of what started this whole thing for me. I find this to be a realy nice set up. I hope to make a version of this over the next few weeks. Now that I have two fuel savers. I think I'm going to leave on set up on the bench for heating and welding and build a mobile one like the one in the pictures. I'd give credit to the builder but I don't remember where I found these photos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 "I have an Allstates propane oxy torch with a thumb valve on/off" Frosty, what's the tip size you use for heating your work? I wonder how much heat one can actually use before simply spittting a lot of burned gas in the atmosphere. That info could make me change my mind on my propane set-up. Thanks Abenakis Depends but if it's large stock I use the "heater", small I use the brazing tip and middlin I use the cutting tip. I only have the ones that came with the set. #0 cutting tip, #5 brazing tip (I think) and #5 heater tip. (rosebud) Follow the guidelines in the direction booklet and it'll never spit unburnt gas. The propane flow is metered by the oxy is flow so once you've adjusted to the desired flame at the handle you can run the oxy pressure up or down at the regulator and not effect the final mix at the tip. You can only go so far with the brazing tip with regulator pressure but it's virtually unlimited for the cutting tip. There isn't much point in overpressuring the heater tip it does such a good job within normal operating range. Without pushing the pressure I can melt a 1" cube of mild steel in under 13 seconds with the #5 heater tip. The same size oxy acet rosebud hadn't heated one to red anywhere but the corners in the same time. Have you messed with the weld eraser tip? That's the one the wows em. Scares the bejeebers out of them actually. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abenakis Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Frosty I have not yet purchased my propane set-up. I am not sure where I will go. Harris has 2 types of mixer for their handles; one is somehow like the Magnum set-up, with the fuel (propane or other) sucked in by the oxygen flow and the other which resemble the Smith handle, with the fuel and the oxygen coming in on their own pressure. This later one is named positive pressure or E, and the other one is F for low pressure system (as little as 4 ounces). However, the low pressure system, when fitted with a heating set-up, will reach only sub 100,000 BTUs. On the other side, the positive pressure system will reach 1,025,000 BTUs but the pressure must be 135 pounds (1600 SCFH) on the Oxy side and 40 pounds (400 SCFH) on the propane side. I am trying to have comparision numbers for the Magnum set-up because price IS an issue for me. Unless you can give me! Abenakis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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